Tough Love for Newbies and really anyone else


(Michael - Don't expect miracles and you won't be disappointed.) #61

Being a ‘newbie’ is not a time dependent phase. It’s an attitude. The longer you eat lo/no carb, become more efficiently fat adapted, experience both foreseen and unforeseen benefits, the less you think you’ve given up something. Instead, you realize you have gained something far better. As your appreciation grows that you gained something valuable, the feeling you gave up something weakens. Finally, you realize you are where you want to be, want to remain and see no point leaving. Ever. At that point, you are no longer a ‘newbie’. Doesn’t matter whether it took you 6 months, 12 months or 5 years to get there.

After your newbie attitude changes, so-called cheat days are no longer an issue. You don’t want to eat that stuff any more so you don’t. Family gatherings and social events are no longer an issue. You politely decline to eat stuff you don’t want to eat any more. You find a way because you are NOT making a sacrifice. You ARE instead celebrating good health and nutrition - and enjoying the benefits of it.

Cant get back into ketosis
On the struggle bus
New to Keto need Good snack recipes
Xylitol, Allulose, and insulin

You are doing fantastically! You’d think I would know better, at 68 years old and a dozen major attempts(and successes!) at losing weight and stabilizing hypoglycemia. A big move right before Halloween started me on my downhill path, but it was the biggies-- Thanksgiving and Christmas-- that really pushed me off the deep end.

Definitely hoping for better this year, and looking forward to getting back in the groove. Ketosis has many benefits for me outside of weight loss, and
I’m looking forward to experiencing them again!

(Deborah ) #63

Terrific post!

(traci simpson) #64

That describes my feelings. I have lost two pounds that go up and down on a regular basis but all I can do is keep learning what is going to work and what doesn’t.

(Jennibc) #65

Keep the faith and keep plugging away! You can do it!

(Lo) #66

Thanks for this whole post, but specifically the above quote. I “fell off the wagon” after a vacation in Florida and have been slipping and sliding ever since (especially the past couple of weeks). I came back to the forums to get re-motivated, and your post has contributed greatly to that. This way of eating has helped me see a lessening in chronic pain and greater mental clarity as I enter a new phase in my life, so I know it works - I just needed the nudge to get back on track.

Again. Thank you!!

(Jennibc) #67

I am so glad you found it helpful! That was my intent. One of the greatest gifts is self-compassion. Once we learn and practice that, it’s much easier to face challenges and meet goals.

(Bob M) #68

You might try going full-on carnivore. You might be one of those people who really receive a benefit.

(Bob M) #69

The posts of the type addressed in the first post in this thread are difficult for me. After 5.5 years of low carb/keto (with multiple false starts before that), I have had MANY times when the scale “stalled” on me but maybe my belt size decreased or did not. I have had shoulder surgery (not good for weight loss/gain, no matter the diet), done MANY 4.5 day, 3.5 day, 36 hour+ fasts, eating within windows, OMAD, TMAD (two meals a day), eating dairy, not eating dairy, eating nuts, not eating nuts, etc., etc., etc. And I could list another 10-20 tests I’ve done on myself.

So, when newbies come with questions, I often don’t want to answer, particularly if they are at all flippant. And I’m also a “newbie” in the sense that I don’t often come here. Sometimes I will answer, but then it’s too easy to get overwhelmed by answering, as the posts never stop. And, honestly, it’s like the blind leading the blind: I don’t know any better than they do. I just know what has worked for me in the past. The main thing I do is I never give up. I’m 5.5 years into it, still wouldn’t mind losing weight, and am losing weight (and gaining muscle). Slowly, very slowly, but it’s there. And often I think of all the benefits I’ve received and use those to keep going:

  • used to take two 24-hour allergy pills per day; take none now
  • asthma is gone
  • skin tags are gone
  • precancerous skin areas are gone
  • frequent urination is gone (save when I take my beta blocker)
  • snoring is gone
  • about 60 pounds of fat are gone
  • 10 pounds of muscle is here
  • I can usually eat two times per day, sometimes one
  • I can still fast 30 hours once per week, sometimes two
  • I can still fast 4.5 days when I get the right week to do so
  • I control hunger, it doesn’t control me
  • with heart failure, betahydroxybutarate is important, and I’m basically always in ketosis
  • I slide easily into and out of ketosis (can be <0.5 BHB every morning, and over that at night)
  • tinnitus is less
  • skin is much better
  • thought process is better
  • I have boundless energy

I could go on. Maybe I should clean this up (I see some aren’t parallel), and just post this every time a newbie posts? :wink:

(Bob M) #70

Oops, that should be about 36 or so hours of fasting.

(Eric - Slow down to speed up!) #71


Thanks for posting. I get overwhellmed with newbies and then a handful have an attitude. But some are so grateful for the guidance. I’m 11+ months in strict keto and ~5 yrs low carb kind of keto.

I’ve finally found what works for me but I’m confident that at some point it may stop working. So I also am a newbie.

Lets keep on keeping on.

(hottie turned hag) #72

I really really dig this ^^^^ :purple_heart:
Doesn’t apply to me as my ocd prevents cheating and my fam isn’t the sort to GAF who eats what and I am reclusive so never attend “social events” but it still resonated.

(Kirk Wolak) #73

@misshannah I agree with you, but not probably completely.
First, THIS is how the ATTACK of the food Pyramid and the CICO model should be ATTACKED by Keto people.

It is UNACCEPTABLE to suggest we are bad people or non-compliant, or just lazy. The truth is that when we are inflamed, we have less energy. Our body is burning our energy trying to deal with inflammation. And the stress induces hunger, forcing us to eat or starve (something I don’t feel on keto… And that’s probably how NORMAL weighted people feel).

But, I don’t think we should remove the stigma from obesity completely. It is unhealthy, and while it might not be fixable in everyone, we as a society have to try.

The sad thing for me is that SO MANY people are okay being unhealthy, because “They literally want to eat Double Stuffed Oreos and Ice Cream”… I just had this conversation last night. And they believe SINCE they are ALWAYS going to crave these things, because they always do under the old model, that whatever program they follow BETTER ALLOW them to have these things. And Jenny Craig and Weight Watchers LOVE to perpetuate this (because addicts will always come back!).

So, we have work to FRAME the argument:

It’s NOT your fault when you were lied to.
But once you know the truth… You have FULL responsibility from that day forward!

The biggest Zinger I ever had someone throw at me (When they found out I was at the gym 5 days a week), they asked “for what? The Buffet?” OUCH!


I appreciate that’s your opinion. However, research shows shame and stigma do nothing to motivate individuals to growth or change. It’s not just useless, it’s literally counterproductive. What are you afraid would happen if you didn’t stigmatize (stigma: a mark of disgrace associated with a particular circumstance, quality, or person) fat people anymore? God forbid we be free to seek our own level of health and contribution to society without your capital letter judgement.


Thats not ur decision nor should it ever be, to choose what others should do with their lives, specially when its not hurting anyone. If someone wants to live unhealthy lifestyle and accept the ending, why does it bother you?

Best driver for healthy lifestyle is self-interest, that is why majority of people (pre-finding keto) in this forum are well on their way to getting sick, are already sick or are battling with obesity. Same thing with the shallow fitness boom of instagram era, self-interest driving them to workout and eat healthier to look better.

That depends on the individual, some push back, some hide, not everyones the same. I do believe tho it shouldnt be used as “motivator”, ur life/urself should be motivator enough. If u care enough about urself u will find a way, u wont need outside “motivator” for it.

(It's all about the bacon, baby) #76

About twenty percent of obese people are what doctors call “metabolically healthy obese” (MHO). My question: as long as the excess fat is not interfering with health, is it even a problem?

There are also thin people with metabolic disease, called by doctors “thin on the outside, fat on the inside” (TOFI). We are so accustomed to associating obesity with ill health that we forget about the TOFI’s, but they are just as ill as anyone else with diabetes, cardiovascular disease, etc., and they cost just as much to treat.

So the moral of the story is probably that obesity per se is not the problem, it is metabolic disease, whether it is accompanied by obesity or not.

(Kirk Wolak) #77

The point was whether or not being obese should have a stigma attached to it.
My point was that as a society, such stigmas serve as goal posts. Yes, people fall outside of them all the time (think height, IQ, etc). If a society is too open to every possibility, it literally changes and degrades, it is no longer “THAT” society.

I should not be the person who decides. No one person should. I lived under that stigma for most of my life. It motivated me to keep trying. THE CHALLENGE was the HORRIBLE Advice from Doctors and Dietitians! (Eat less, move more). Had I gotten the right advice 30 years ago FROM the PROFESSIONALS I WAS PAYING… It would have been fixed long ago.

It’s NOT the fault of the person who is obese, UNTIL they know how to truly fix it, and REFUSE to do so. At that point. It’s on them. Not until then!

The challenge is that we make it INAPPROPRIATE to TALK about! You see an obese mom buying a grocery cart full of SUGAR, Ice Cream, Soda, Snacks, and she has 2 pre-teens that are obese as well with her. And you have to bite your tongue, but she is killing those kids because of her ignorance… When THEIR Doctors should be helping them! (Zero stigma means more children growing up this way, IMO)

So, MAYBE I was inelegant in my phrasing… Maybe Stigma/Stigmatize are the wrong words, when I meant we should not normalize a clear sign of metabolic disease. We should strive to make sure everyone knows the causes of these things. After that, it IS THEIR CHOICE… No argument.

(Jennibc) #78

"Contrary to common sense, guilt and shame often don’t lead to change but to overindulging. Feeling bad makes it harder to resist temptation because we want to cover our shame and guilt with instant pleasure, or in this case, candy.

Study after study shows how self-criticism is correlated with less motivation and worse self-control.

In contrast, self-compassion (being supportive and kind to yourself as you would to a friend, especially when confronted with failure) is associated with greater motivation and self-control."

Sorry, but stigmatization hurts rather than helps despite what you might believe to be true.

(Kirk Wolak) #79

Okay, I stand corrected.

Willing to learn.

Stigma Bad. Support Good.

So, how do you approach someone who needs help?


Why would u wanna treat such “societal flaw” with negativity if given opportunity? Such stigmas create pressure/stress on people/society and are originally driven by out-dated thousands years old tribal behaviour and further abused by modern world advertising that “u need to be this or do that to get this”. Yes it can work for some but we arent apes anymore where we need to hit someone to make them stop.

Wouldnt u rather prefer giving out knowledge that however disadvantaged someone might be, its okay and not just let them get depressed and isolated from the world, as not everyone can turn this stigma/negativity to power and change their view of the world or change their lifestyle to healthier.

Ultimately its ur fault the most, thats why its called big food influencing ur dietary decisions and not deciding for you, they didnt buy the sugar and eat it, you did.

I agree we should strive for more open information and better education, but im afraid its going backwards, specially in america.