Cant get back into ketosis

newbies

(Give me bacon, or give me death.) #55

Not necessarily. Ketogenesis is stimulated by glucagon and inhibited by insulin. But the key is the insulin/glucagon ratio, which determines whether the metabolic milieu is primarily anabolic or catabolic. Since we need both anabolism and catabolism to occur regularly, there are complex mechanisms regulating this.

Don’t chase ketones, chase metabolic health. Weight normalization is merely a side effect of metabolic health, anyway. The problems resulting from hyperglycaemia and hyperinsulinaemia are well-known:
advanced glycation end-products, sytemic inflammation, hypertension, increased blood coagulability leading to stroke and myocardial infarction, fatty liver disease, cognitive disability—to name just a few.

Still want those carbs?

These are not mutually exclusive. The real opposition is glycolysis versus fatty acid metabolism. The latter occurs only when carbohydrate intake drops low enough to lower the insulin/glucagon ratio. Gluconeogenesis is necessary when dietary carbohydrate drops, or we would keel over and die (literally; our red blood cells would starve to death, and the brain would then expire from oxygen deficiency). So gluconeogenesis occurs routinely whenever glucose intake (i.e. dietary carbohydrate) is too low to supply the need.

This is the same condition that makes ketogenesis and fatty acid metabolism necessary, since gluconeogenesis provides only enough glucose for those cells that absolutely need the glucose. During the fat-adaptation phase, our muscles limp along on ketone bodies, until they can re-ramp up the fatty acid pathway and start using it. Once fat-adapted, our muscles actually prefer to metabolize fatty acids, in preference to glucose and even ketone bodies, sparing the latter two for use by other organs. The brain does particularly well on ketone bodies, and as mentioned, red blood cells require glucose. Hence, ketosis and gluconeogenesis are partners; it is glucose metabolism that is the antagonist.

Given the ill-effects of hyperglycaemia and hyperinsulinaemia I mentioned earlier, I don’t really understand the reason for wanting to ingest any kind of quantity of carbohydrate—apart from addiction, of course. I fully understand that. But although I may still occasionally yield to my addiction, I fear carbohydrate more and more, the more I learn about nutrition. :bacon:


(Chris) #56

So two weeks ago I carved up on Saturday. Fasted 20 hours ate dinner keto and that night was in ketosis. I figured sweet this will work. This week I did the exact same thing and I’m barely back into ketosis 5 days later. That’s why I had the question


(Chris) #57

I dont view it as an addiction anymore. My wife often has chips or ice cream beside me and I dint need it anymore. I want it cuz it tastes good but I dont have that deep need. But I get to live one life and thinking about being so utterly confined to a diet to never ever have these (yes horrible) but amazing tasting foods just depresses me. Luckily I can and still stay healthy as long as I find the proper length of time between these days or meals to maintain good health


(Give me bacon, or give me death.) #58

I believe it depends on what you mean, precisely, by “ketosis.” Nutritional ketosis is aribitrarily defined by Phinney and Volek as a serum β-hydroxybutyrate level of 0.5 mmol/dL or above, because that is the level at which they generally begin to see the benefits. But ketogenesis has to be occurring, regardless of how much β-hydroxybutyrate is circulating in your bloodstream, or you’d be dead. Stop chasing the number, and chase health instead. The amount of β-hydroxybutyrate circulating in your bloodstream bears no relationship to the amount actually being produced in your liver and being consumed by your other organs, okay?


(Full Metal Keto) #59

Well, it sounds like you have it all worked out, you’ll have to find what works for you. If you give things a chance maybe you won’t feel depressed about this lifestyle. I was a Chinese Sichuan cook for over 20 years and a Baker too. Rice, noodles, Dim Sum, and I loved pizza and bread too but now I don’t miss them. Will I indulge in some of these foods I used to eat? Yes, you don’t have to ban any food for life. Just don’t eat them “today”. I focus on the delicious keto food that I can eat rather than feeling depressed about what’s not keto and no longer part of my daily lifestyle. That makes things a hell of a lot easier. :cowboy_hat_face:


(Michael - Don't expect miracles and you won't be disappointed.) #60

(Susan) #61

I think if you try and not cheat at all for a few months, you will lose the appetite in general for these foods, because you are still addicted to them. My kids order pizza all the time, or bring in McDonald’s, KFC, etc into the house, and are cooking foods that are not Keto as well, all the time, and it doesn’t bother me at all now. It did at the beginning and was hard, I just told myself, if you eat that, you will always be fat, and that was my motivation to not make bad choices.

You are addicted to carbs; we all were, it is like being an alcoholic or a drug addict, so you have to purge your body of it… then have it just for special occasions, and holidays, etc. and then fast after for a few days to get back into Ketosis, and autophagy (which has many benefits, like tons).


(Chris) #62

Ya I’m no longer addicted I just like the taste Haha. But I hve how fasted for almost 24 hours I just consumed mct oil coffee and my ketones are at… .4. I think I’m broken hah


(Susan) #63

You will get there, if you maybe do 48 hours? I know it is not an easy thing at the beginning but your body will adjust, and your cravings change, and your tastebuds change as well =-).


(Give me bacon, or give me death.) #64

Well, if your ketones are now at 4, you are in pretty good shape, no?


(Chris) #65

.4 haha


(Michael - Don't expect miracles and you won't be disappointed.) #66

@05147ae533bd743d8b98 and anyone else who thinks a ‘carb day’ is OK. Here’s a well-presented and low key talk for you edification. It’s specifically about fruit, but it’s generically about sugar/carb. Fettke also manages to get the message across with good natured humour.

“It’s easier to fool people than to convince them that they have been fooled.”

PS: A big thank you to @ArtMeursault for finding this video!


(Chris) #67

This was a great lecture. My argument is joy that pizza and ice cream is healthy. Lol just that I dont believe I’ll ever not want it


(Chris) #68

I have more info and I really really want to find out what’s going on. It’s been 6 days now and I’m still not in ketosis. I eat
3 peices of organic bacon
3 eggs
125g of assorted sauteed green veggies cooked in bacon grease
Eggs cooked in butter
Flax seed on top of veggies
Lunch

Coffee with mct oil and heavy 0 carb cream
Almonds

Dinner

Pork chicken or beef ans side of green veggies

My protein is 100g my fat is 120-150g and my carbs are 15net.

I fast 16/8 and I do this every single day with little variation. Why in the world am I nkt in ketosis? I sincerely dont understand it this is what I’ve been eating for the last 2 months I’ve had no issues. Suddenly after a carb up I cant go back in? Is this something anyone else has experienced? It’s starting to really piss me off cuz I dont feel that great. Oh I alap tried a 24 hour fast


(Chris Wolfgram) #69

organic bacon

:slight_smile: lol That just sounds funny to me :slight_smile: If I saw “organic” on bacon, or anything else for that matter, Id be throwing it back on the rack in a split second. Organic is a lame, over used buzz word, used to sucker people into paying more than they need to.


(Chris) #70

I dont mean organic Haha I buy it locally sourced and organic was just the closest word


(Full Metal Keto) #71

You lost your Club KETO Card! :joy::joy::grin:

At .4 you are likely in ketosis, just a low level. You shouldn’t stress because that stimulates Cortisol and stifles ketosis. :cowboy_hat_face:


(Chris) #72

Lol fine I’ll be patient and not obsess as hard as it is for me hah. Thanks for your help I learned alot


(Full Metal Keto) #73

Yes Chris, we all know your penchant for Chemical Antibiotic Stew. :joy::joy::cowboy_hat_face:


(Chris Wolfgram) #74

Dirty Keto all the way baby ! :blush: