Tough Love for Newbies and really anyone else


(Scott) #81

This came up on a 2ketodudes podcast this morning (I have started at episode 1 and doing one a day). I can’t remember if it was in the UK or Australia but government funded health care system. I think in the “MAIL” segment someone after going keto brought their prescription cost down from $15,000 a year to below $2,000 and expects that to be cut in half again next year. From a taxpayer standpoint a unhealthy life style can adversely affect me. Having said that it does not give me the right to shame or scold someone.

When I see someone in bad metabolic heath two things come to mind 1) I feel for them and the difficulty they may have or will have. 2) I think to myself “I have the answer to correct your health”. If someone asks for help I am happy to spread the word (keto) and educate. Not all people are in need or want help and that’s okay.


That would depend on lot of things, someone who gets that sick that they “require” 15k worth of meds a year have likely worked enough (15-20yrs on avg wage) to cover atleast 7-10 years of that circus (not including other ways u pay taxes). I dont think it would ever go to a level where it would bother me atleast.

Id happily help as well if i knew someone who clearly needed help or someone asked for help. Maybe u sympathize more with people like that if u had same problem urself and see them in a situation u once were in.

(Bacon is the new bacon) #83

Sometimes I see fat people and think, “Someone really needs keto!” I have to remind myself that I don’t know where they are in their journey, because they might already have gone keto, and perhaps what I see is not their starting point, but where they’ve managed to get to. Take me, for example: I’m still fat, but I’ve dropped sixty pounds and am no longer pre-diabetic nor hypertensive. None of that shows to someone who doesn’t know me.

(Ellen Baldwin ) #84

I’m a newbie and really enjoying the keto lifestyle. But now after reading these post I’m afraid to ask any questions. I read all the posts and follow everyone’s advice. I sure hope I’m not annoying people. Are we that bad? Where else should I go for the guidance and support that I thought the oldies provided?

(Eric - Less is more!) #85

Oh gosh please ask. Search first if you can but don’t hesitate to ask. We can be blunt but that is usually with a dose of experience.

(Diane) #86

Yep. We were all newbies once upon a time.

(Bob M) #87

I agree with that. It’s hard to change. I’ve been low carb over 5.5 years now, and still look at fat with disdain at times, remembering the 30+ years of low fat I did. I spent decades eating hot cereal for breakfast (no fat), pasta for lunch, and brown rice and beans for dinner, with a snack of rice cakes. Add some chicken breasts without the skin, white egg omelettes, and that was me.

I’ve been doing this so long, I don’t remember being a newbie. In my time, I’ve tried eating paleo, low carb, keto, resistant starch (no benefits, in fact I think high fiber is bad), many different vitamin regimens (don’t take anything other then vitamin D and magnesium), iodine (too much seems bad), dairy/no dairy (still eat dairy), yogurt/no yogurt (like dessert for me, so avoid), nuts/no nuts (I try to avoid nuts), high fat/high protein (like higher protein better), fasting longer/fasting shorter (still try both at times), … Many more I can’t remember right now.

I think the issue for me is the sheer number of the same posts over and over again. And the idea that keto (or any diet) is going to undo 10, 20, 30, 40 years of different eating in a short time. It won’t. I’m still losing weight and gaining muscle, albeit slowly, after 5.5 years. You do see some people who lose amazingly quickly, but I’m not one of those.

And while I like people like Dr. Fung, his website (and others like it) can be disheartening at times. He typically has the “star” people on it, who are fasting 42 hours 3 times a week and fasting 5-7 days once a month. Or you’ll see “How Jimmy [or substitute a name here] lost 100 pounds in X months!” [put a ridiculous value for X months]. When I read these, even I can get upset, when I try to fast 36x2/week and only make 36x1 and 22x1 or I fast 4.5 days only once every three months or more. Or I compare my weight loss with theirs and can’t figure out why I’m not losing faster or not at the weight I was when I was in high school/college.

Then I realize I’m 30+ years older, I have one repaired completely torn rotator cuff and one currently completely torn rotator cuff, 30+ years of insulin resistance, 30+ years of NAFLD and FLD caused by excess alcohol and sugar… But because everyone puts their star pupils in front of us, we all think that’s what others can do, when in reality, it’s not what most people do.

(Eric - Less is more!) #88

Agree 1,000,000%

At 65yo I have a lot of years to reverse. If I see some positive trends I’m mentally good. Even with that, some weeks I want more progress and have to remember:

the trend is your fiend

slow down to speed up

Thanks Bob for the details. It is a journey.

(hottie turned hag) #89

Dude may I suggest a dose of apathy with a detachment chaser?

Family, friends, sure. But strangers at the grocery with baskets heaped with cookies and soda?
I don’t even notice them. Nor care.

(Jennibc) #90

I think it’s fine to ask questions. That’s how you learn. The reason I posted was I have seen so many people come to this forum and expect miraculous results overnight and then they are ready to throw in the towel when they don’t see them. My post was a reality check so people won’t give up, so they would know that the struggle is real for most of us. I think it’s the outliers that come and drop 100 pounds in a year. Most of us have more modest weight loss results. But the other health benefits are why we stick around.

(Kirk Wolak) #91

Bob, having been a client of IDM (Dr. Fung), and one of those examples (Lost 120 lbs in 10 months), and could not workout during the majority of the loss…

Let me suggest you read the article I wrote on the Levers of Power
The Levers of Power (What to Measure, What to Control) to avoid stalling/stalls

Those levers are WAY MORE important than people realize. Artificial Sweeteners are my favorite. If I consume them, I cannot lose weight. If I eat too many times during the day, I cannot lose weight. Every lever varies on each person.

We have a friend who has lost 65 lbs (probably 75 and done by now), since November 2018… But he does a squirt of Carmel Stevia in EVERYTHING. His coffee, his water. But HE CANNOT DO BPC. That stops his weight loss immediately.

Going Carnivore and Clean made a huge difference. Fasting I found to be easy ONCE adapted.

Trick with Fasting. Do a FAT Fast first. Pick 2 FATTY foods. And for 2-3 days eat ONLY those foods. Eat until full. You want your fat tank FULL. You should feel less and less hungry (Same 2 foods for a couple of days). Food boredom kicks in, and your ABILITY to feel hunger changes [I learned I had at least 3 versions of hunger: Time to eat, Want to eat, Need to eat], and they all feel very different to me now. The first two GO AWAY when you present the same 2 foods all the time. Quickly.

Once you get over that hump. CHANGE what hunger means to you. To me, it literally means “Feed me, or you’re going to start losing body fat!”… And suddenly you look forward to it. Now when I feel “that” hunger, it’s a friend who keeps me sharp.

These are small hacks. But they add up. I would BET that you have some food sensitivities/addictions that you are still feeding (nuts, sweeteners, something). And that is holding you back by jacking with your body more than the experts can explain right now.

The fact that you probably need Vitamin D (Which is used first for inflammation, and why I was always deficient), is a good sign it is probably the case.

The journey is to find what a Clean Diet it is for you. I’ve watched the people who struggle and then remove the right stuff, really start to lose, and it is simply amazing.

I wish you luck!
If you find any levers that make a difference, please share it for others…

(carol mclintock) #92

Love this…I have a couple of times posted out of sheer frustration at a stall but know that I just have to keep on with it…had a lot on, 53 years old and a terrible diet for the majority of that (all the time believing that I was eating healthily) and although I still have a rant (my accountability thread) , I am now realising that I will find my way to a lower weight when my body is ready to give it up and has done healing itself after years of abuse and not to compare myself to the ‘stars of the week’

(Roxanne) #93

I recently read that a lack of magnesium is what causes acid reflux, so I tried taking a supplement, and it has really helped. I hope you notice a difference since you say you started taking magnesium.