Other Hyper-responders help!

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cholesterol
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(Robert Z ) #1

Hi Everyone. Been on the diet for about 2 months. Got my first blood work and I am one of the 3% (hyper-responder) chol:343, tri:64, hdl:41, ldl-c:285

I don’t have any other specific keto test but will in the future. My family has CVD and Atherosclerosis history so I am predisposed. I am 53, 6’ 170lbs. I gave my doctor a stroke when he saw my numbers.

I would like to hear from other hyper-responders to share your success story and how they achieved them. I am super confused as to who to believe and trust, Doctor or not. But I do, do believe of the benefits of keto since I have notice the positive difference on how I feel.

So it is a little worrisome considering my family history, almost killing my doctor and the internet new age medicine . Hope to hear from you all soon!

(Eric - The patient needs to be patient!) #2

I’m not a hyper-responder. I have CVD so I tend to read a lot about the role of cholesterol in heart disease.

You need to research the Feldman protocol and his website. There are also various podcasts where he is interviewed. I think the low carb cardiologist and the two keo dudes.

There are also youtube videos.

Recent research seems to indicate that plaque buildup is in response to inflammation. High carb diets and especially eating PUFAs (nut and seed oils) high in Omega 6 fatty acid are especially inflammatory diets. Keto lowers markers for inflammation.

Yes, cholesterol has a part to play but the source of the plague starting is inflammation. Insulin resistance leads to higher inflammation. I don’t have the research handy so maybe someone else can post the relevant links.

Cholesterol concerns
("Don't call it calories, call it food") #3

@atomicspacebunny posted this video, which I found very informative

Edit: it’s not about hyper-responders, just about cholesterol and heart disease in general

https://youtu.be/7gZt9DQqtZI

(Robert Z ) #4

Thank daddyoh,

I am internet research overloaded. I can read all day and watch videos and I will find all the answers in every directions you look into contradicting one another.

I would like to hear from other Hyper-Responders and their own experiences, what they did and their results.

I know everyone’s own body reacts differently but if I can gather a specific data so I can make the right educated (from real actual data from H-R) decisions for my self.

Doctors are in this box and won’t go out of it leaving us on our own. Hope I will get some answers from real life experiences from Hyper-Responders.

(Mike W.) #5

What is a hyper responder?

(Omar) #6

you have a great tg/hdl

(Robert Z ) #7

What is a Hyper-Responder?

The term, “hyper-responder” has been used within the ketogenic / low carb, high fat (keto/LCHF) community to describe those who have a very dramatic increase in their cholesterol after adopting a low carb diet. This increase can be anywhere from 50% to 100% or more of their original, pre-diet cholesterol numbers.

(Bunny) #8

To make this short and sweet as possible; this is my take on this:

If your eating too much sugar (including excessive carbs) with fat in your diet, your blocking your physiochemistry from absorbing the fat soluble form of vitamin K that regulates the way calcium is absorbed; either it goes to the bones or it has no choice but to calcify the arterial walls and internal organs including LDL[4] particles sticking to the arterial walls!

If your not eating enough fat your body cannot absorb the fat soluble or water soluble form of vitamin K…

In the event that any body does develop a CVD or CHD on a ketogenic diet they may not be getting enough vitamin K or D or the ability to absorb it is inhibited in other ways or limited from high levels of glucose?

References:

  1. Cholesterol is required by almost every cell in our bodies. It is so vital we are able to manufacture it. Cholesterol is predominantly made by your liver. Cholesterol is so vital we manufacture the bulk of the body’s requirements.
  1. Cholesterol is the structure which is the base of all our sex hormones, bile acid and Vitamin D is made from. Cholesterol maintains cell walls, allows cellular communication and transportation of substances.
  1. Cholesterol is a poor predictor of heart disease. Half of those with heart disease have ‘normal’ cholesterol levels. Half of those with ‘high’ cholesterol levels have healthy hearts. Most heart attack victims have cholesterol within the “normal” range.
  1. “…The research, funded by the British Heart Foundation (BHF), found that ‘ultra-bad’ cholesterol, called MGmin-low-density lipoprotein (LDL), which is more common in people with type 2 diabetes and the elderly, appears to be ‘stickier’ than normal LDL. This makes it more likely to attach to the walls of arteries. When LDL attaches to artery walls it helps form the dangerous ‘fatty’ plaques’ that cause coronary heart disease (CHD). CHD is the condition behind heart attacks, claiming 88,000 lives in the UK every year (1). The researchers made the discovery by creating human MGmin-LDL in the laboratory, then studying its characteristics and interactions with other important molecules in the body. They found that MGmin-LDL is created by the addition of sugar groups to ‘normal’ LDL – a process called glycation – making LDL smaller and denser. By changing its shape, the sugar groups expose new regions on the surface of the LDL. These exposed regions are more likely to stick to artery walls, helping to build fatty plaques. As fatty plaques grow they narrow arteries – reducing blood flow – and they can eventually rupture, triggering a blood clot that causes a heart attack or stroke. …” …More
  1. ”… When you consume a diet high in cholesterol, your body naturally produces less endogenous cholesterol, and the total overall amount is insignificantly changed. …” …More
  1. The Ketogenic diet, Saturated Fat, and Genetics: Peter had one patient, whom this happened to, here’s what he did:
  • He cut his patient’s saturated fat intake to very low levels (20-25 grams a day)
  • 65% of his fat calories were being consumed from mono unsaturated fat (this is very hard to do, an easy way to get this much mono unsaturated fat is to consume lots of olive oil)
  • After 8-12 weeks, with the same macronutrient distribution (so the same overall levels of protein, carbs, and fat – just with different types of fat – much less saturated fat) – their LDL particle number dropped tremendously, inflammation dropped, and their sterol biomarkers returned to normal
  • People with certain SNPs (pronounced snips – these are basically single gene variants) on PPAR alpha and PPAR gamma, just don’t do well with saturated fat, like Peter’s patient
  • People with these SNPs, should have a higher ratio of poly and mono unsaturated fat to saturated fat inake, in order to lower their type 2 diabetes risk
  • If they consume too much saturated fat, they’ll see effects similar to what was observed with Peter’s patient
  • Why some people have trouble entering ketosis
  • From an evolutionary perspective, you should have been selected out really quickly if you can’t make ketones efficiently
  • It’s not all about generating ketones, first you have to deplete your glycogen (stored liver glucose) – once our body depletes its stored glucose, then it starts running on ketones …More
  1. SNP’s PPAR-alpha & PPAR-gamma
Keto and HIGH triglycerides and HIGH cholesterol
Attia Feldman podcast
How a Low-Carb Diet Might Help You Maintain a Healthy Weight
Help, need really good research about cholesterol!
Is fat now bad?
Panic has set in. Need advice!
(Mike W.) #9

Thank you.

(Robert Z ) #10

Thank you everyone for your input but we are slightly getting off topic of my post.

I am really looking to chat with a hyper-responder’s own experiences and what they path did they choose.

(TJ Borden) #11

It hasn’t gotten off topic at all. People are trying to give you info so you can better understand cholesterol and how it ACTUALLY works and why so many doctors get alarmed at numbers that don’t tell you anything.

As others have said, your Triglyceride to HDL ratio looks great and that is the key marker of CV issues.

MOST people on low carb/keto, especially early on, would likely fall under your “hyper-responder”. Check out the podcasts and info linked above and you’ll lean why.

(Robert Z ) #12

Thanks Tj,

Let me re-phrase my question or post…

Who is a hyper-responder in this forum??

(TJ Borden) #13

:persevere: okay, you’re new, so I get that a lot of this info is new to you, so I’ll restate:

Most people are hyper responders in that their cholesterol shoots up in ways that freak their doctors out.

The reason think you’re not getting you question answered on what to do about it, is because you’re asking the question as though there is a problem.

What everyone is TRYING to explain is, there is no problem. The best you can do is educate yourself then try to educate your doctor.

(Wukin) #14

Hi

I don’t know if I am consider as a hyper responder. Numbers are doubled or triple in mine beside hdl stays the same. The fact is you won’t capable of educating your families. They would think you in some kind of cult that believe eating bacons are fine. Your doctor thinks don’t dare to outsmart him/her. Don’t even try to convince them. Believe what you believe. Modify your meal a bit to suit them. At least thats what I did. Do your best to get your lucky typical number on lipid panel. Haha.

(TJ Borden) #15

Totally disagree. The numbers they want to see aren’t healthy. You were on the right track with the “screw them” mindset.

If you want to fool your doctor, that’s cool. That can be done with the Feldman protocol referenced above, but cleary @Rob.Z isn’t wanting to read and learn, he just wants the info spoon fed to him.

(TJ Borden) #17

Many would say both, but to answer your question of why I’d say that: it’s based on you saying you’re not interested in links people have provided because you’re on internet search overload… even though you came asking questions. The answers have been provided above, you’re CHOOSING not to learn.

Im sorry you lost a parent. I’ve lost one too, with the second nearing the end of his T2D downward spiral. It sucks, but it’s nothing special around here.

#18

@Rob.Z, I am a hyper-responder.

Here are my numbers from the last blood test I had:

Total Cholesterol: 320 mg/dL 8.28 mmol/L
LDL Cholesterol: 254 mg/dL 6.57 mmol/
HDL Cholesterol: 50 mg/dL 1.29 mmol/
Triglycerides: 76 mg/dL 0.86 mmol/L

Very similar to your numbers. My trig/hdl ratio is 1.52, and yours is 1.56. Anything under 2 is considered safe.

What am I doing about these numbers? I continue to eat foods that are high in fat and keep my carbs below 20 grams a day. Other than that I’m not worried because current research proves that our cholesterol numbers are NOT a good indicator of cardiovascular disease.

If you are concerned whether you have CVD and/or atherosclerosis, ask your doctor to perform more tests to better determine this possibility. If he’s simply interested in prescribing you a statin, then get another doctor.

(Robert Z ) #19

not him

(Robert Z ) #20

Thank you Darren,

How long have you been on Keto?

Were your results from the first blood draw to today always been the same?

How many calories do you eat and how many meals?

Do you have any family history?

Did you blood pressure ever increased?

Have you done a calcium score before keto? if yes, have you checked it again since on keto?

Thanks in advance.

(TJ Borden) #21

I just wanted to highlight this because you may have missed this part of @dlc96_darren’s post.