Other Hyper-responders help!

[juice]

I just wanted to highlight this because you may have missed this part of @dlc96_darren’s post.

[dlc96_darren]

How long have you been on Keto?

Since January 2017.

Were your results from the first blood draw to today always been the same?

These results were from last October. I plan to have another this month. I had been fasting before the test, and learned afterward that these numbers probably could be lowered using the Cholesterol Drop Protocol (“Feldman Protocol”).

How many calories do you eat and how many meals?

Honestly, I have no idea the calories. I generally eat one meal a day (breakfast or lunch). I’ve just decided to start eating some sardines and a few pickles after work. I’m pretty lazy about my meals, I just eat until I’m full.

Do you have any family history?

Not to my knowledge. Most of my relatives have died of old age.

Did you blood pressure ever increased?

I’ve always had high blood pressure until I started eating keto.

Have you done a calcium score before keto? if yes, have you checked it again since on keto?

No calcium score. Since my family doesn’t have a history (to my knowledge), I haven’t been persuaded to have this done. But, with your family history, I would encourage you to.

Thanks in advance.

You are quite welcome. I hope this helps.

[Rob.Z]

Darren,

It helps indeed. Any data from actual and personal experiences H-R helps me decide what I should do for myself. Like I said, everyone respond differently to keto or other. What if I am a rare case that this diet would worsen or increase my already CVD. NO one knows this until I try or die so, I am wrong to question any aspect of this diet? We all trusted the doctor way back when and now internet engineers are the new age doctors and lets try and see if I survive?

Cocky ,ignorant comments from other member(s) on this site is useless. People asking for help do not need to be belittled, insulted or condescended to. It also doesn’t help anyone if you don’t read the original post and just respond to what you think we are asking - with judgement - instead of what we actually asked.

At this point I don’t want to post here anymore, and that is sad as I think many of you genuinely want to help. Many of you have and I am grateful, truly! But it only takes a few bad apples to spoil the bunch and there are more than a few bad apples here.

I know the internet gives a sense of anonymity, but think before you speak. There are actual people here seeking assistance. Treat them like you would if you were face to face. Needless to say, if someone asked me about a keto forum, this one won’t be in my suggestions.

I’m expecting to get bullied by TJ for posting this note, which is just sad.

[juice]

I’m expecting to get bullied by TJ for posting this note, which is just sad.

Just FYI, words have actual meanings, you can’t just make them up to suit yourself. HTH.

[Baytowvin]

I’m expecting to get bullied by TJ for posting this note, which is just sad.

How am I being a bully? You came looking for answers and several people provided you with those answers, but it just wasn’t what you wanted to hear. Because I’m pointing that out, I’m a bully?

I know the internet gives a sense of anonymity, but think before you speak

No anonymity here. My profile has my has my full legal name, home town, and picture. What else would you like: phone number, street address? I’m not hiding from anyone.

Again, you came on asking a question, but the question was flawed because you are assuming there is something wrong, and what everyone here has been saying is there is noting wrong. Plus they’re trying to give you the information so you can learn and understand why there’s nothing wrong. You are free to do whatever you want, no one is forcing you to be here, but don’t get frustrated at me because you’re not getting the answer you had already decided you wanted to hear.

People asking for help do not need to be belittled, insulted or condescended to

I’ll assume you’re referring to me. So what is it I said that was belittling, insulting or condescending? Keeping in mind, I believe it was you that said:

TJ , What are you ignorant or stupid?

you stupid f*ck

Talk about hiding behind anonymity. Generally people don’t speak like that face to face. I’m not sure who flagged that post but it’s too bad. I prefer it when those kinds of comments stay out there in view so people can get a better understanding of the kind of person they’re talking to.

People are here to support each other and to help educate each other. You were provided an AMAZING amount of information on the latest science regarding cholesterol, but you’re completely ignoring it. I hope you find somewhere that will give you the answers you’re looking for, clearly it’s not here. Good luck.

[juice]

I prefer it when those kinds of comments stay out there in view so people can get a better understanding of the kind of person they’re talking to.

Especially when they’re posting about how they’ve been bullied…

[Alpha]

I’m expecting to get bullied by TJ for posting this note, which is just sad.

TG is very supportive and provides constructive advices

I think you are super responding in the post that was auto hidden.

you are a super responder alright but not to cholesterol but to people who spend time to help you.

[juice]

you are a super responder alright but not to cholesterol but to people who spend time to help you.

[Virginia]

People asking for help do not need to be belittled, insulted or condescended to. It also doesn’t help anyone if you don’t read the original post and just respond to what you think we are asking - with judgement - instead of what we actually asked.

At this point I don’t want to post here anymore, and that is sad as I think many of you genuinely want to help. Many of you have and I am grateful, truly! But it only takes a few bad apples to spoil the bunch and there are more than a few bad apples here.

I know the internet gives a sense of anonymity, but think before you speak. There are actual people here seeking assistance. Treat them like you would if you were face to face. Needless to say, if someone asked me about a keto forum, this one won’t be in my suggestions.

I’m expecting to get bullied by TJ for posting this note, which is just sad.

This sounds sooooo familiar. I mean, “If you don’t have anything nice to say” ( <---- hint) and all. @devhammer Andrew, just bringing you in on this.

@Baytowvin TJ, you didn’t, in my opinion, do anything wrong.

[devhammer]

Not seeing any bullying here, but I think it’s not necessary to belabor the point.

I could lock the topic, but I don’t like to do that unless things get out of hand.

I do think it would be better to stick with the topic than respond to the accusations, whether they’re fair or not.

And for the record, calling someone names, particularly as quoted above, is behavior that can result in being shown the door. Fair warning.

EDIT:
Also want to acknowledge that some of what I see posted in replies is inflammatory, and I’ve privately called out where I think things went over the line. So two things I’d ask here, of all involved:

1. Please don’t characterize or make assumptions about others’ motivations.
2. Be charitable in how you read what others post, and assume the best, rather than the worst.

I’d also add that if someone posts something you don’t like or agree with, it’s OK to just ignore them. Although to be fair, I have not always been the best example of this:

Duty Calls

[Baytowvin]

I’d also add that if someone posts something you don’t like or agree with, it’s OK to just ignore them. Although to be fair, I have not always been the best example of this:

Well obviously I’m TERRIBLE at that.

[elastoplastic]

Hey @Rob.Z,

Some thoughts about how I would proceed in your shoes. I have these thoughts because I have a severe history of cvd in my family, lost my dad at 19 and have a sick brother. I have spent time researching this very complex subject, but am definitely not an expert.

1. Try to read every opinion out there about cholesterol. I fall into the camp that statins are useful when you have a very high LDL. You need to make your own decision and understand the potential side effects.

2. Wait three months. Repeat your test. See if you can get a particle size test. Get a calcium scan

3. Decide your course of action.

Honestly, there is nothing really that you can do in the short term that would make me comfortable in your shoes. LDL is not really a helpful marker at this point of keto. But I am not a doctor.

[Ketodaisy]

I just had blood work a couple weeks ago and had cholesterol numbers higher than they’ve ever been (after a couple months on Keto). My dr’s response “cholesterol panel looks great!”.
I’ll be anxious to see my levels next year. They’re still within normal levels, but my ldl was literally 2 points from high. It’s always been on the way low end of normal before. It startled me a little at first glance, but I’m not worrying about it right now.

[CandyLindTX]

I would like to hear from other Hyper-Responders and their own experiences, what they did and their results.

I’m coming in to this party late, but I’d just like to reply based on what I’ve learned in 18 months keto and what I’ve read here.

@DaveKeto (Feldman, who visits here as a guest expert) DEFINED (and is a) LMHR. His research began as a result of his devastation over numbers JUST LIKE YOURS.

Someone early on in this topic referred you to his website.

I suggest you center your quest for information on his website, get a CAC and (the other test that measures calcification in the blood vessels; I don’t remember the acronym) as recommended by Ivor Cummins & others. Those are the true “tells” of CVD & CHD. Don’t overload yourself with cortisol stressing about your cholesterol, because those numbers really don’t matter. I think that is what everyone here has tried to tell you.

Cocky ,ignorant comments from other member(s) on this site is useless. People asking for help do not need to be belittled, insulted or condescended to. It also doesn’t help anyone if you don’t read the original post and just respond to what you think we are asking - with judgement - instead of what we actually asked.

The written word is almost universally interpreted differently from person to person. Though not all LMHRs, everyone here is trying to help in their own way. You could wait days for replies from LMHRs on here, when the information is already here to be found, using the awesome search engine. I don’t think anyone started out to judge or condescend.

If I were to look through this topic and decide for myself who was being judgmental, you would be on the list with others, I’m sorry to say. JMHO.

I know the internet gives a sense of anonymity, but think before you speak.

Physician, heal thyself.

@Rob.Z, I know you are concerned; I feel your pain. My mom died of CHD. It’s part of what keeps me keto.

My advice: KCKO. ALL OF US.

PS THANKS @devhammer for coming in as a voice of reason while I was typing away.

[dlc96_darren]

I’m coming in to this party late

But your participation is always welcome.
Great response, Candy. Thank you.

[richard]

I am super confused as to who to believe and trust, Doctor or not. But I do, do believe of the benefits of keto since I have notice the positive difference on how I feel.

A hyper response is probably just an indication that you don’t appear to have enough body fat to fuel a few lean days in the mammoth hunting business, so your liver up-regulates the production of lipoproteins to carry more backup energy in your circulation.

Personally I suspect a healthy body has enough body fat to fully fund a few days fasted without having to draw down lean tissue too much. A 100kg man with 20% body fat can generate around 1400kCal/day. A 60kg woman with 25% body fat could generate around 1050 kCal/day. I suspect those are about as low as a clever body should push things during good times to prepare for lean times.

People who can’t store body fat at those levels for whatever reason need a backup strategy, and that is why the liver could kick in to make more vLDL to carry more triglycerides to peripheral cells. Also the more habituated your body is to using a lot of energy (eg: if you are a recreational runner) the greater capacity your liver would probably want to build in.

The above is just an hypothesis, leveraging on one of @DaveKeto’s - I have no proof, and I’m not sure how you could prove it. But it is the simplest explanation that fits all the facts as people who seem to become hyper responders appear to have lower body fat %, and are habituated to higher energy output.

[ctviggen]

I would put money on your hypothesis, were I a betting man. Dave (I believe) thinks all people who get thin and exercise a lot would be or turn into hyper-responders. I’m not sure about that, but there are no good ways to test this. Sadly, I’ve resigned myself to the fact that I’m never going to be as thin and active as I was in my 20s, so I’ll never morph from my still-obese self into a hyper-responder.

I do like Dave’s theories that LDL is primarily (or at least partly) a system for delivering energy. For me, if I fast multiple days, my LDL goes way up, as do my triglycerides. I figured this out before Dave came along, but he’s the one who figured out the theory.

[juice]

Sadly, I’ve resigned myself to the fact that I’m never going to be as thin and active as I was in my 20s

Yeah, there’s a lot more factors besides diet in that equation.

[Ohioms]

Thank you all for your input. I have been Keto x 10 weeks. Cholesterol runs
super high in our family, father died @62 (dx arthrosclorotic heat disease, lost
a younger brother at 52 - same. My cholesterol is controlled with simvastatin 20 mg/day.
I hope to get off it eventually, so found the discussion and information very helpful.
Having 6 brothers, I was use to “in your face” comments, and their hearts were
in most part were in the right place - they cared/care. Although a retired RN, I
have welcomes and found solid information provided on this forum. Just as the KCKO recommendation, KBHKC (keep being honest keep contributing) - there are many of us out here who desire and can use your expertise and knowledge. Hopefully , others will find
that what they want to hear versus what may be reality does not necessitate gentility
and enabling words/thoughts. Thank you all for your contributions.

[SomeGuy]

The above is just an hypothesis, leveraging on one of @DaveKeto’s - I have no proof, and I’m not sure how you could prove it. But it is the simplest explanation that fits all the facts as people who seem to become hyper responders appear to have lower body fat %, and are habituated to higher energy output.

@richard I see this is an ancient thread. But I feel compelled to toss another n=1 “hyper-responder” data point onto the pile…

I probably fit the classic profile: 60+ yrs old, rather lean and physically active. Switched from decades of “low fat” (high carbs, but not sugary stuff) to well-formulated keto 4 months ago.

Feel absolutely amazing - numerous bothersome “old age” issues magically disappeared.

Now, just got my second round of NMR results:

Tot Chol = 320 (“High”)
LDL-C = 234 (“High”)
LDL-Particles = 2805 (“Very High”)

There stats are all even higher than elevated levels seen after just 2 months of keto.

What, me worry? Well, here’s the rest of the story…

HDL-C = 71 (looks great)
Triglyc = 74 (looks great)
Ratio = 1 (looks awesome)

Small LDL-P = 475 (not bad)
LDL Size = 21.6 (Pattern A, i.e., good)
LP-IR Insulin Sensitivity = <25 (Clearly I’m a sensitive guy)

So what to do in response? Start eating high fiber cereal, bananas, and 1% milk again?

No, the fact that my body feels this amazing (and my trigs are low, HDL is high, Pattern A is evident, and am insulin sensitive) suggests I should keep eating keto and loving life.

Am always open to contrary views, but am partial to science