Do I really need to eat organic meat + dairy?

[mtncntrykid]

Here is a previous discussion-

Is grass fed / organic food a must on ketogenic diet?

So, the study I’m doing, which is led by Jeff Volek, has me at approximately the 75/20/5 ratio. The first Week until I reached ketosis they wanted me in the 80/15/5 range - here are the maintenance numbers they gave me. [image] For me: 20g of carbs and 120g protein is already 560kcal of my daily requirements covered. What’s left comes from fat. That means at a 10-15% deficit - I’m between 200-220g of fat. Using a quick Keto calculator (keto-calculator.ankerl.com/) - at 10% deficit - I’m h…

[PaulL]

No! Grass fed is NOT a keto rule

I’m inspired by @Brenda to state my point of view on this subject. I also want to let you know that, yes, I am one of those yuppies who buys grass-fed butter, pastured eggs, organic vegetables at farmers markets, and I get to know the farmers personally and buy high end grass-fed, slow-raised, pastured meats. And I pay through the nose for those products. But, it irks me to no end when I see “you need to buy organic, grass-fed, pastured…yada yada yada…to obtain good health on keto, so don’t b…

There is no keto rulebook

Here’s a tip: Don’t get too anal or dogmatic about anything. That’s a recipe for disaster. If you want to adopt this as a permanent lifestyle, it’s important to relax and keep it simple. There is no “one true way” to be on a ketogenic diet. There are also no rules. Or rulebook. The only criteria is to remain in a state of ketosis If you get bullied or chastised for eating a very low carb Joseph’s pita because it has grain, if pearl clutchers come out of the woodwork because you ate an artifi…

[Brenda]

just plain old beef, chicken, lamb. Also non- organic cream and cheese. Are they really that bad?

They are not bad at all.
I’m banging my head on the wall over here. Who the hell told you you have to eat organic and grassfed? It’s a joke. Eat low carb, moderate protein and fat to satiety. You’ll be in ketosis. That IS the ketogenic diet. Everything else is a load of anal BS.

[Mangusdog]

Thank you Brenda!! I completely agree. Sometimes it’s like being on a new mom forum. Good lordy

Edited to add: this forum is one of the best, so I don’t mean it that way. Just the whole organic/grass fed thing reminds me of moms talking about breastfeeding and organic home made purees (no thanks, baby led weaning all the way here!!). IMO Just don’t let your kid starve and your golden.

[J_A-M]

I won’t buy cold cuts because they have a ton of chemicals

I’m curious what tons of chemicals you’ve been led to believe cold cuts have.

[atomicspacebunny]

Devil’s advocate questions: ORGANIC: GMO VS. NON-GMO\GRASS-FED VS. GRAIN-FED?

Just like being aware of the possibilities if any?

Processed sugars (too much of it?) and carbohydrates, and too many muscle meats will eventually cause different types of cancers and most likely colon cancer eventually?

Non-GMO compared to GMO - Grass-fed (only) vs. Grain-fed (only; or grass finished?); big difference in nutrient content?

With anything, once you process something from its organic nature your body is like “WTF IS THIS?” Simple binary code becomes complex hexadecimal code?

Notes:

1. Yes, bacon really is killing us: Decades’ worth of research proves that chemicals used to make bacon do cause cancer. So how did the meat industry convince us it was safe? By Bee Wilson: Nitro-chemicals have been less of a boon to consumers. In and of themselves, these chemicals are not carcinogenic. After all, nitrate is naturally present in many green vegetables, including celery and spinach, something that bacon manufacturers often jubilantly point out. As one British bacon-maker told me, “There’s nitrate in lettuce and no one is telling us not to eat that!” But something different happens when nitrates are used in meat processing. When nitrates interact with certain components in red meat (haem iron, amines and amides), they form N-nitroso compounds, which cause cancer. The best known of these compounds is nitrosamine. This, as Guillaume Coudray explained to me in an email, is known to be “carcinogenic even at a very low dose”. Any time someone eats bacon, ham or other processed meat, their gut receives a dose of nitrosamines, which damage the cells in the lining of the bowel, and can lead to cancer. You would not know it from the way bacon is sold, but scientists have known nitrosamines are carcinogenic for a very long time. More than 60 years ago, in 1956, two British researchers called Peter Magee and John Barnes found that when rats were fed dimethyl nitrosamine, they developed malignant liver tumours. By the 1970s, animal studies showed that small, repeated doses of nitrosamines and nitrosamides – exactly the kind of regular dose a person might have when eating a daily breakfast of bacon – were found to cause tumours in many organs including the liver, stomach, oesophagus, intestines, bladder, brain, lungs and kidneys. …More (LACKS CITATIONS TO RESEARCH?)

2. Heal Organs by Eating Organs (protomorphogens - DNA Parts) Dr. Darren Schmidt

3. Dr. Royal Lee, Conversations in Nutrition - Volume One

4. Gastrointestinal Cancers in Optimal Dieters …and Also ”Zero-Carb Diets Can Induce Mucus Deficiency?”

5. Is Organic Really Better?

6. Bacon-Gate: Will Eating Red or Processed Meat Cause Cancer?

7. GMO Labeling Law: Did Your Senators Vote to Keep You in the Dark?

8. The Organic Meat Dilemma

9. 7 Simple Ways to Avoid GMOs

10. The 3 Most Important Reasons to Eat Organic

11. The 16 Best Foods for Liver Health

12. GMO Side Effects with Jeffrey Smith

13. How To Protect Yourself From Glyphosate: Dr Stephanie Seneff, a senior scientist at MIT, has done a lot of research on glyphosate and health. She has this to say about sulfur: One of the most important things [to protect yourself from the harmful effects of glyphosate] is to be sure to get enough dietary sulfur. …More

14. Unreleased FDA Testing Reveals Glyphosate in Common Household Foods May 1st, 2018

15. …organic deep ground based sulfur that use to be closer to the surface that you want?

16. WHO Says Meat Causes Cancer? by Dr. Georgia Ede, MD

17. Grass-Fed Animal Products Prevent Obesity and Cardiovascular Disease?

18. The Nutritional Benefits of Grass Fed Butter

19. The Discovery of ‘Fat-Soluble Activators’

20. Amber O’Hearn part II

21. MeIQx, 2-amino-3,4,8-trimethylimidazo[4,5-f]quinoxaline (4,8-DiMeIQx) and PhIP were shown to be present in dry-heated meat juice

22. Just don’t add excessive processed sugars and carbs?
    
    

23. Cont…

[Brunneria]

By switching to keto eating you are doing yourself and your body a huge favour.

Yeah, maybe you could do your self a bit of an extra favour by eating grass-fed gold plated organic meats, veg and dairy. But the possible extra benefit is very debatable (see the links people have posted above), and the main thing is to just go keto.

Please don’t fall for the You Must Do THIS Or You Are Doing It WRONG mindset.
That is a huge great steaming waste of time, research and stress.
Just stay flexible and tweak a bit if necessary, while getting on with your life.

[Alecmcq]

Organic absolutely not required. Period.

[lfod14]

Obviously things grown Organically are better, but that doesn’t mean that the “normal” stuff is poison either. Don’t become obsessed with it, buy the best you can buy, when you can buy it. Look for sales, possibly re-evaluate where you shop, there’s plenty you can do to save money. Not going to effect your fat adaptation at all. On the cold cuts, plenty of brands out there that are fine, the super processed ones like salami and pepperoni, and glued together meats like bologna and hot dogs are the ones people are talking about when they say stay away from cold cuts. Plenty of ham, turkey, roast beef etc that are just cooked and sliced with nothing creepy added. Check your supermarkets deli case, most have brands like Applegate that do exactly that. Pretty sure Boars Head also has a couple “natural” ones as well.

[TGAMEL62]

They are not bad at all.
I’m banging my head on the wall over here. Who the hell told you you have to eat organic and grassfed? It’s a joke. Eat low carb, moderate protein and fat to satiety. You’ll be in ketosis. That IS the ketogenic diet. Everything else is a load of anal BS.

I have to Agree with Brenda… My wife and I have been on a ketogenic diet since September 2016, and the only organic food we get is from our free range chickens, and what we our in our garden. We use plain old unsalted Walmart butter and Walmart heavy Whipping cream. Organic is not an issue for us, and it shouldn’t be for you. If you want to eat organic that’s great, but do not let anyone tell you that you are not eating keto if you are not eating organic foods.

Keto is low carbohydrate, moderate protein, and high fat, your body cannot tell the difference between Kerry Gold butter and Walmart Great Value Butter. If you like organic and can afford it, go for it, but you do not have to eat organic to enjoy a ketogenic lifestyle.

[Kaiden]

I’m curious what tons of chemicals you’ve been led to believe cold cuts have.

I’m going to be the weirdo among weirdos…

I eat cold cuts, because they are a good source of lithium orotate.

Cold cults are good for mood and cognition. They are easy to prepare, and delicious.

Ideally, I eat cold cults from US Wellness Meats, or similar, so that I avoid dextrose, but I’m not made out of money.

[atomicspacebunny]

I eat cold cuts, because they are a good source of lithium orotate.

Wow, didn’t know that, thanks for the good info!

Notes:

1. Does lithium make weight loss past a certain point impossible?

[Mangusdog]

I eat cold cuts too. Not often because I find them expensive but I have no issues with them on a nutritional level.
I can’t find kerrygold butter here but the last grass-fed butter I bought cost $10 for a small brick and I didn’t even like the taste of it.

[Brenda]

I don’t like the taste of grass fed beef. I prefer very fatty corn finished.

runs and hides behind a rock

[Mangusdog]

I’ve determined from my one experience I don’t like grass fed butter. It has a weird lamby aftertaste.

[Brenda]

Kerrygold has a deeper richer yellow color and is stickier but otherwise to me tastes no different than a good store butter

[PaulL]

I love you people! It’s worth being a member of these forums just for the humour!

[monsterjuice]

I don’t eat organic anything. Never had grassfed beef. I can’t afford it. I do sometimes get better eggs, but heck when I can’t in my budget, I buy the big boxes of 5 dozen eggs at Walmart for under $5. (I have auto immune issues so I can’t work as much as I’d like). So my budget is very limited but I focus on meats ( a lot of hamburger 73/23 or 70/30 if I can find it, eggs, bacon, buttter, fats. I never worry about organic. After all the carbage I’ve ate over my lifetime I’ll take all this over that crap.

[atomicspacebunny]

Eating more marine life?

Additional Notes:

1. Fish Oil May Reduce Colon Cancer Deaths:. July 20, 2016 “…Omega-3 fatty acids from fish may help reduce the risk of dying of colorectal cancer, a study suggests. …In total, 1,659 of the people developed colorectal cancer during the study. …”

2. Eating fish can reduce your risk of colorectal cancer, among other benefits “…The omega 3 fatty acids in fish have been reported to suppress mutations. The selenium in fish has anticancer qualities. And fish are a source of Vitamin D, which has been reported to be inversely associated with colorectal cancer. …”

3. Fish oil prevents colon cancer by modulation of structure and function of mitochondria: Abstract: “…Cancer cells are more susceptible to metabolic perturbations due to impaired electron transport chain (ETC) that promote uncontrolled proliferation. Mitochondria play a pivotal role in bioenergetics and apoptosis, hence are considered as a promising target in tumor cell eradication …”

4. Higher freshwater fish and sea fish intake is inversely associated with colorectal cancer risk among Chinese population: a case-control study: “…These results indicate that higher consumption of freshwater fish, sea fish and fresh fish is associated with a lower risk of colorectal caner. …”

[Kaiden]

That’s market forces at work.