Why not avocado?

(Bunny) #96

And the raw steak juice?


Whoa - that’s some sweeping stereotyping there.

99% of human history humans lived in intimate relationship with the natural world (and pretty much in ketosis) - and even though humans are .01% of species on earth, non-indigenous agrarian civilizations and especially modern industrial culture have managed to annihilate much of the biomass. human civilization has slashed the total biomass of wild mammals by as much as 85% and has cut plant biomass in half. This inadvertent culling has had a massive effect on the overall biosphere, leading to a situation where scientists say we’re now in the midst of a mass extinction event that is almost without precedent.

People who have the heart to grieve and take proper action in their communities on behalf of living planet come from all walks of life and belong to many organizations and spiritual paths. Land stewardship as a value and ethical compass is woven into aboriginal & indigenous cultures. It’s the industrialists and dominator culture itself that we should be concerned about.

I think the recent keto documentary The Magic Pill, which begins with a focus on the Aboriginal Australian community, does a very good job at showing how insane industrial culture is.

What if there were no monolithic/stereotyped “environmentalists” and only people who knew their source enough to humbly love & defend our one and only planet in whatever ways suitable in their lives - to change the consumer/military model of economy, and protect what is left of this earth for future generations. We only defend what we truly love.

To this day, indigenous peoples are struggling to hold on to the last of their sacred lands from extraction industries (natural gas, oil, fracking etc).

Ireland and England, Wales and Scotland, used to be dense with ancient forests, 99% of those British and prehistory forest habitats destroyed by empires - and covered with what… cinder block public housing, supermarkets, malls, factories. car lots, asphalt, artificial treeless fields for agriculture, etc etc etc. There are patches of nature preserves, but they are very very rare. MOst kids only spend 15 minutes outside on daily basis, and most have little to no access to natural play areas.

Even the last remaining patch of Sherwood Forest has involved a battle with profit-focused destructive interests who care not that Sherwood Forest has its own value inherently, and is not something to control or exploit. In North America, before european invader-setters and slavers, the original forests were so thick that a squirrel could travel from Maine to Texas without ever touching the ground, and the skies darkened as huge flocks of birds frequently travelled the skies. Native Americans were forced off 99% of the lands they’d stewarded for millennia - and surviving children were forced into colonial schools (a great great gran of my own included).

Globally, 98% of the old growth forests the world over are gone (irreplaceable, as they represent primoridal centuries of a complex eco-communities - totally different than a tree plantation or forests “managed” by modern timber interests). 90% of the large fish in the sea are gone, and the oceans are collapsing - there are less than 100 orca whales left in the North Pacific - and they are starving. So, I’m eternally grateful for anyone and everyone who is fighting back on behalf of living planet. I certainly support changing the man-made/patriarchal industrial economic model based on destruction of the natural world and global domination via massive militaries (the U.S. military is the largest user of petrochemicals). Many of us know in our hearts that domination & extraction of the living land and marginalized/vunerable peoples and species - is morally bankrupt - though only some belong to “environmentist” groups like the Sierra Club, or Save Sherwood Forest, or The Rainforest Project - plenty others are doing what they on behalf of a living planet by working in the sciences and in education, etc.

(I want abs... olutely all the bacon) #98

You have not provided your source for this assertion, do you have one or more?


Hey there @SlowBurnMary – my post was mainly in jest – your response was far more thoughtful than my post deserved.

But I must tease you (gently) - I asserted that environmentalists attempt to induce guilt in others. It’s obvious that you are passionate in your concerns, but given the moral tone of condemnation that pervades your response, aren’t you kind of proving my point?

I put that question to you with as much goodwill as I can – I’ve been reading your other posts and you’re such a constructive member of this forum, I really hesitate to confront you on anything, even though I hold diametrically opposite views on some things. Plus, I don’t want to further hijack the thread!

(Ron) #100

They scolded me for to much civility so I am passing it on. :grin::grin: Tag your it!:metal:

(Bunny) #101

Hmmm Interesting? But nothing conclusive, the last paragraph of that blogger has me a wee bit concerned though, because that’s the part we never get to see when the study is over with?

Gastrointestinal Cancers in Optimal Dieters: “…I learned over on Peter’s blog that Optimal Dieters have been dying of gastrointestinal cancers at a disturbing rate. Recently Adam Jany, president of the OSBO (the Polish Optimal Dieters’ association), died of stomach cancer at 64 after 17 years on the Optimal Diet. Earlier Karol Braniek, another leader of the OSBO, died at 68 from duodenal cancer.

A Polish former Optimal Dieter who has now switched to something closer to the Perfect Health Diet noted that gastrointestinal cancers seem to be common among Optimal Dieters: …”

Study subject on optimal diet reportedly in good health?

”…If you would like some details: the man was 64, on OD for 12-14 years, diagnosed 2 years ago, reported in good health before that. He was one of the participants in prof. Pilis’ study[1]…” “…The impression we get is that there’s rather high occurrence of gut cancer, including stomach, duodenum, colon[2]… …”

[1] http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19083495
[2] http://high-fat-nutrition.blogspot.com/2010/08/urate-ascorbate-resveratrol-and-land.html?

”Zero-Carb Diets Can Induce Mucus Deficiency?”

Do I really need to eat organic meat + dairy?
Inuit Genetics Show Us Why Evolution Does Not Want Us In Constant Ketosis
Resistant Starch 101 — Everything You Need to Know
How can I want to become ketogenic again?
Adequate fiber is a real problem
High fiber all-bran cereal with zero net carbs - Keto friendly?
No Clear Requirement for Dietary Carbohydrates for Human Adults
(Rob) #102

I know you were sorta joking (though obviously not really), but surely that’s a perfectly valid marketing approach used by capitalist brands and worthy charities the world over since the beginning of advertising. I suggest your issue is not the approach, but where it is directed. :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye:


Digital text doesn’t contain tone, we bring it to the reading - unless there are lots of emojis. I’ll take that as a compliment :wink: :avocado:

(I want abs... olutely all the bacon) #105

These links are others opinions. Is your opinion based on research or did you search for links to support your statement after being questioned? I stopped reading after 2 of the links provided.

  • The first link includes “I ate a high-vegetable but extremely low-carb diet from December 2005 to January 2008. At the time I thought I was getting about 300 carb calories a day, but I now consider this to have been a zero-carb diet, since I don’t believe carb calories are available from most vegetables. Vegetable carbs are mostly consumed by gut bacteria, whose assistance we need to break down vegetable matter, or by intestinal cells which consume glucose during digestion.” This is so off base of research shared in the forums everyday.
  • The next link I opened is a Redit question linking to research and the first response is saying why the linked research is flawed.

(Linda Culbreth) #106

“Avocado is tree bacon!” Wish I had thought of that! And it’s also to add bacon to your avocado or your avocado to your bacon!


Remember when this thread used to be about avocados? Pepperidge farm remembers.

(TJ Borden) #108

Gets me in trouble all the time. If someone doesn’t know me and know that 90% of what I say isn’t intemded to be taken seriously, I can come across as way more of an ass hole than I really am.

(TJ Borden) #109

You must be new. We TRY to keep the first dozen or so posts on topic. After that, it’s a free for all. This actually stayed on topic well above average.

(Bunny) #110

Itemized List:

[1] People died of intestinal type cancers? So it is not my opinion or any bodies opinion, it is simply a skeptical observation!

[2] Since I am not perfect and cannot remember thousands of things at once, I had read about this on the links I provided on a previous occasion!

[3] You asked me to answer a question about the “sources of my assertions” on my previous statement in a post on this thread and I provided the information you requested!

(I want abs... olutely all the bacon) #111

I recognize we will not move eachothers stances on this. I do not believe your links support your statement and you do, best we stop to leave the avocado post as an avocado post.

In transparency, even if I believed the links supported or partially supported your statement, I would continue to eat keto / carnivore with focus on muscle meat and no swimming protein than the % offal and certainly very little vegetation because I will choose quality of health while I’m living than extend my life not enjoying the ride and feeling less than I could to slightly reduce my risk of cancer.


@Capnbob – actually, my issue is not with the approach, it’s with the assumption that certain constituencies seem to have that they are entitled to lecture the rest of us without our consent.

I reject that vegans, environmentalists, social justice warriors, healthcare establishment apologists, etc., have any moral authority whatsoever, and I choose to not accept unsolicited lectures from them. I consider it a violation of my intellectual sovereignty to have someone who I do not know or respect try to tell me what I must think, or what I can say, or what values I must hold, or what choices I must make – all without my permission and in fealty to their agenda.

So, they have the right to speak, but so do I. And I do take perverse pleasure in explaining to a vegan that the best part of eating venison is recalling the hunt.

(Rob) #113

That much was predictably obvious. At least we can agree that it is fun to bait vegans :grin:

(Banting & Yudkin & Atkins & Eadeses & Cordain & Taubes & Volek & Naiman & Bikman ) #114

Meh. Folks with valid concerns do not merit flippant dismissal, no matter how inconvenient their concerns are to you.

Vegans are so easy, tho.


I doubt it. Sure, that’s something some people say, but like humans, not all plants are the same.

The plants that are commonly eaten today are not wild, but rather are the result of many years of human selection to remove harsh tastes/toxins. The veggies we eat today have been under cultivation and are quite mild compared to their wild ancestors - that’s why we like and eat them.

Can some people be negatively affected by eating some plants? Sure. Some are quite toxic. But not all. There is great variability in both humans and plants.

If plants developed toxic strategies to not be eaten, why did not animals?
Especially the slow or dumb ones. :wink:


Now see, this is a perfect illustration of exactly what I’m talking about, and thanks!

I live free in a western liberal democracy, so I’ll determine whether the concerns of others are “valid”, whether they “merit” dismissal, and how “flippantly” I may choose to dismiss then. As to how “inconvenient” a concern is for me is based on its legal and moral weight. As to its moral weight, I’ll assess it against my moral framework, not someone else’s. But if I find the concern has no such weight and I dismiss it, it’s hardly inconvenient to me.

Vegans and their ilk stridently represent themselves as “folks with valid concerns”. I just reject that. And while I may sound strident in my response, I’m not lecturing anyone on how they should think, speak, or act.