I agree completely. Being an old gal, I participate in Medicare’s Silver Sneakers program, and they send out helpful exercise videos as well as motivational stuff. I recently read their piece on goal setting and am going to use their advice about setting specific, attainable goals. Starting out, I am restricting my eating to a 10-hour time window and eating 3 times a day with no snacks. I have committed myself to sticking with it for at least a solid week to give it a fair trial.
Yes, I agree that it is more helpful for people to be supportive rather than listing a rigid set of rules that must be followed. We are all trying to find our way here. If you are having trouble getting back to low carb eating, try setting yourself a small goal, or goals, and see how it goes.
@atomicspacebunny No one described on that page was eating a carnivore diet. There were two people described as having died of cancer but it was while eating a diet called the Optimal diet which consists of 30 grams of carbohydrates per day. Hardly carnivore. Basically a standard ketogenic diet. Also, they weren’t 20 years on even that diet. One was 17 years, the other wasn’t mentioned.
So not carnivore, not three people and not 20+ years.
Further, the writer of that webpage is describing a diet of 300 calories from carbohydrates per day, which is 75 grams of carbohydrates, as zero carb based on nothing but opinion.
“I ate a high-vegetable but extremely low-carb diet from December 2005 to January 2008. At the time I thought I was getting about 300 carb calories a day, but I now consider this to have been a zero-carb diet, since I don’t believe carb calories are available from most vegetables.”
amwassil
(Michael - When reality fails to meet expectations, the problem is not reality.)
#109
@atomicspacebunny Have you anywhere on this forum presented yourself as an advocate of the Perfect Health Diet? Many of your posts make more sense in that context. If you have done so I missed it and would appreciate a forum link. I have no objection to your advocating PHD as an alternative to KD, but would appreciate your being open and honest about it. I suspect there might be some here who would be interested. Thank you.
I do fully understand the details you are pointing out, the founder also died of intestinal cancer making three!
Even though carbohydrates are involved and not completely a carnivore/zero carb diet or however you want to define it? Besides animal protein, fiber can also contribute to colon cancers or intestinal type cancers which I have a ton of research on that also which demonstrates fiber does not prevent colon cancers; it was the resistant starch in the diet that determined whether or not a colon or intestinal tract could become cancerous and and quite surprisingly even reverse various types of intestinal cancers.
I want to narrow this down to the bottom line and that is; the mucosal barrier in the gut was breached in those optimal dieters from not enough resistant starch in the diet whether it be fiber, meat or carbohydrates and that also means even on a high carbohydrate diet or SAD diet you may get a little un-digestible starch but not the kind you would get as what the ancestors may have had access too or if you understand how to purposely supplement with it?
I hope that clears up any misunderstandings?
I also want to point out during my own N=1 meat only diet, I noticed I could not produce the kind of mucus in my lungs and nose I did prior to the diet and could not produce tears and my eyes were extremely dry constantly, you need mucus to push out pathogens and protect your body?
The good news: I can now eat a meat only diet (something I’m not doing at the moment) as long as I include the resistant starch with no draw back in mucus production and as a matter fact even more mucus.
My original post is in more detail:
amwassil
(Michael - When reality fails to meet expectations, the problem is not reality.)
#111
I read this at the link provided and my first thought was: this is not possible unless this person was eating grass. And I don’t think that was the case.
The bioavailability of macronutrients – carbohydrates, proteins, fats – is usually very high at more than 90% of the amount ingested. Source
Sugars and starches are the body’s main sources of calories. Your body breaks down these carbohydrates into glucose. Source
I have fine discipline except visiting with family for some days twice a year. 5 days of Christmas, just ended, were a disaster, ate crap, felt lousy, gained weight. I’m so glad to be home with my basement gym and usual food. Several of us have agreed we should stay home for Chistmas then gather in January in a resort location, exchange gifts but may not do the Christmas food traditions (sorry mom).
I’m able to go to the grocery store and leave with only what I should be eating and I really enjoy that food. I have to admit that disciplined eating is somewhat socially isolating. I don’t mind. I look and feel amazing and, shucks, I’ve got all my online buddies.
The detail I’m pointing out is that not one of those people were carnivores. All we know about their diets is that they restricted carbohydrates to 30 grams. By that definition you are calling nearly everyone on a ketogenic diet a carnivore whether or not they even eat meat at all.
Show us. Where is the evidence, repeated or not, that people on an only meat diet get more colon cancer than the rest of the population. It doesn’t exist because no scientific studies of carnivores have yet to be done.
Right. Three people eating meat only diets didn’t die of colon and intestinal cancer. Not those three people at any rate.
This is just a strong opinion that you hold. You have no evidence on how an all meat diet would relate to the rates of intestinal cancer. There simply is no science on the question as of yet.
You have to remember that this is an n=1 finding and not evidence for anything on its own. There are many people here eating only meat who haven’t had this experience that you describe. My own experience is that my eyes, nose and skin are all much drier in winter when I’m not strictly carnivore.
Anyhow, the main thing that I’m trying to impart here is that it’s simply not true that there are any case histories of long term carnivores getting intestinal cancer. So please stop saying that this is a thing.
It is “a thing” and if you have a problem with it, I’m sure and absolutely positive you can or will write the good scientist below and tell her “it isn’t a thing?” So you can tell us more about this “thing” (risk) you think is not?
”…“Red meat and resistant starch have opposite effects on the colorectal cancer-promoting miRNAs, the miR-17-92 cluster,” said Karen J. Humphreys, PhD, a research associate at the Flinders Center for Innovation in Cancer at Flinders University in Adelaide, Australia. “This finding supports consumption of resistant starch as a means of reducing the risk associated with a high red meat diet.” …” …More
[2] “…MicroRNAs (miRNAs) encoded by the miR-17-92 cluster and its paralogs are known to act as oncogenes. Expression of these miRNAs promotes cell proliferation, suppresses apoptosis of cancer cells, and induces tumor angiogenesis. …” …More
That’s meaningless unless it’s substantiated with real-world results in real people.
This is similar to the BS with mTor, where vegans say that protein increases mTor…but neglect to say that high carb eating causes a substantially longer increase in mTor.
Plus, this statement is based on epi evidence:
“This finding supports consumption of resistant starch as a means of reducing the risk associated with a high red meat diet.”
There is no “risk” associated with a “high” “red meat” diet.
The WHI dietary intervention trial was an actual RCT where they ate 20% less red meat, a statistically significant amount, and also had no increase in any cancer, and the study was powered to find this.
As far as I’m concerned, this ends discussion on the issue of whether red meat leads to cancer.
@atomicspacebunny You are moving the goalposts. What I’m arguing against is your repeated claim that people on a carnivorous diet are getting intestinal cancers at high rates when not a single case of this exists in the literature.
I am not arguing about whether some marker that has been associated with cancer increased in some study. Those are very different things. I’m asking you to stop saying something that simply is not true. Not one of those people that you say got intestinal cancer was actually on a carnivore diet. It’s.not.true.
It exists in reality and it is no coincidence that three people are dead! From the same-thing?
same-thing? (what part of that does not anybody understand?)
If I see three people walking into traffic standing a brittle piece of pavement on the same street corner that are now dead…should I follow in there footsteps and stand in the same place?
There are ONLY TWO RCTs on red meat and cancer. TWO. Why? Because vegans/vegetarians don’t want this actually tested. They know they would lose, as they have already. They would rather look at crappy epi garbage that “supports” their theories, or do studies in test tubes or whatever. They don’t want real results.
The WHI was 49,000 women. 8 years. 400+ MILLION dollars. The largest, most expensive, best RCT ever done. A failure of the low fat/lower red meat hypothesis.
Ruina
(Hyperbole- best thing in the universe!)
#122
You know what would be great? If we kept the carinwars to carnivore topics.
I ate a high-vegetable but extremely low-carb diet from December 2005 to January 2008. At the time I thought I was getting about 300 carb calories a day, but I now consider this to have been a zero-carb diet, since I don’t believe carb calories are available from most vegetables
Blockquote
The above is from your link.
This is an opinion, isn’t it??? I went 0 carb with 0 vegetables. I had no issues and definitely wasn’t constipated as some claimed. I didn’t read this whole article because I’m not going to waste my time.
I’m not entirely sure what your goal is but from what you’ve commented throughout and linked it seems you like to stir up arguments. I’m not here for that. I’m here for encouragement. Please stop if that’s your goal. If you have something that will help myself and others in the same situation then by all means please contribute.
