How long did it take for you to become fat adapted?

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(Hamz Edward) #1

Hey everyone,

I’m curious to know how long it took for you guys to become fat adapted?

And how did you know when you became fat adapted?

How can you tell when your body becomes fully fat adapted?
(Scott) #2

Three months.
I knew when I could run four miles without needing to walk / rest and my legs no longer felt like they had lead in them. I may have taken longer because I am a <50g person.

(John) #3

No idea? Seemed like by about week 5 I found I had much more control over hunger and could skip meals without much discomfort. By about 3 months I could fast for a full day if I wanted to without any dips in energy levels. Almost 9 months in currently, and food intake has no observable effects on my energy or alertness, so I am guessing that my body is quite capable of using my fat stores for energy.

If I had to guess, I’d say the process started kicking in around 4 weeks, and continuously improved since then, to where at about 12-14 weeks it seemed very natural with stable energy levels unrelated to food intake, and there has been gradual improvement since then.

(Randy) #4

After 4 weeks I had days where my energy levels felt good and consistent through the whole day. But some days were not as good. After about 6 weeks I pretty much felt good every day.

#5

I don’t remember how long it took because I was fat adapted before I knew what it was. But you’ll know when it happens because one day you’ll realize you’re not a slave to hunger anymore.

(Michael - When reality fails to meet expectations, the problem is not reality.) #6

@KetoDummies

(Jane) #7

So by stating as an absolute fact that no color on a pee stick means you are fat-adapted … you are discouraging those who like me are well fat-adapted and can fast 100+ hours easily but still turn a pee stick purple. I’m not the only one here who does that.

They will think they are doing something wrong.

But if you take all of the advice on this thread - colorless pee sticks, energy all day, hunger dissipates then you have enough factors for someone to consider to decide for themselves.

(Empress of the Unexpected) #8

One year in, turning pee sticks purple.

(Michael - When reality fails to meet expectations, the problem is not reality.) #9

No, what I’m saying is that if you do NOT show color on a ‘pee stick’ your liver is not producing excess acetoacetate that’s getting excreted. That’s a biochemical fact. No color on the stick is an indication that your production/utilization of ketones and fatty acids is in synch or getting into synch. It’s the production/utilization being ‘in synch’ that indicates fat adaptation. If you have been fat adapted for some time and occasionally show color on the pee stick, it merely indicates that for some reason (eg maybe you ate some exogenous ketones) you excreted some excess acetoacetate. It does NOT indicate you are no longer fat adapted. That’s why I call it a negative indicator.

I remain firm, however, that describing individual subjective experiences is more discouraging to others when they don’t experience the same effects to the same extent. I think that’s when people wonder what they’re doing wrong or what’s wrong with me?

@Regina You’re still producing excess acetoacetate which is getting excreted. The common experience is that so-called ‘pee sticks’ don’t show any color after 2 or 3 months for most people, which is why so many say they’re useless and don’t bother to buy or use them. But that is EXACTLY the problem with using subjective experience as the criterion. You are not ‘most people’ and your subjective experience may or may not duplicate someone else’s. Showing color consistently on a pee stick one year in would make me wonder what exactly is going on.

(Jane) #10

I don’t know why I still turn a pee stick pink (unless I eat too many carbs) and I do not take exogenous ketones. I am definitely fat-adapted for over a year.

(Carl Keller) #11

It took me five to six weeks to become FA and I knew it when I fasted for 36 hours without so much as a belly grumble and my high energy never tapered. I will note that I’d been insulin sensitive for most of my life and my metabolic derangement was probably not as bad as most people.

(Michael - When reality fails to meet expectations, the problem is not reality.) #12

It’s not an either or sort of thing. You don’t go to sleep one day not fat adapted and wake up the next morning fat adapted. Done deal, here’s your diploma. It’s a gradual process that takes a very long time as liver/metabolism synch with the demand for energy in cells and organs. You’re not out of synch one day and in synch the next and that’s the end of it. You might get more and more in sych over time, or not. You might reach a point where it’s ‘good enough’. Or it might fluctuate over time such that you’re more or less in synch from day to day. Just how in synch you are, how consistently or inconsistently you remain at a certain degree of in synch varies with yourself as well as between individuals.

In such a dynamic system, subjective criteria are not useful. Sure, I feel more alert and energetic today than I felt yesterday, therefore I’m fat adapted. But what happens when I feel dull and listless tomorrow? Am I no longer fat adapted? What’s going on? If @CarlKeller knew he was fat adapted when he could fast 36 hours and his energy never tapered… What if I can’t? Why can’t I?

I think most of us here realize it’s more complicated than we imagine. The variables are legion. I think it better to use whatever tools we have available to try to determine objective criteria, even if those tools are imperfect. Otherwise, don’t sweat the details. KCKO.

#13

I am 3 mo in now and believe I am just now becoming fat adapted, my energy is by no means phenomenal, but is more consistent (less fatigue during the day) and I pretty suddenly lost all desire for snacks, 3 eggs with a little salami and artichoke heart has held me over for 8hrs for the past 5 days.

#14

And to be clear being fat adapted is different than being in ketosis.
From linked article:
“Plainly put, “fat adapted” is the metabolic state your body is in once you’ve been in ketosis long enough that your body has efficiently transitioned from burning carbs/sugar for energy to burning fats from your food, body-generated fats, and your stored body-fat reserves for energy.”

Urine keto strips are less helpful when you are fat adapted, though many people still use them. Blood ketones are most accurate for telling you are in ketosis.
Here’s an article that answers the question about how long and when you know you are fat adapted.
[Keto-Mojo Fat adapted] (https://keto-mojo.com/pages/kickstart-what-does-fat-adapted-mean-and-how-long-does-it-take)

(Michael - When reality fails to meet expectations, the problem is not reality.) #15

Off hand, I would not expect eating carbs to cause an acetoacetate ‘dump’. Although maybe if you had a substantial acetoacetate concentration in your blood and you introduced a surge of glucose, the acetoacetate might get dumped to reduce the overall energy load. Have you ever done a blood test after a positive urine test? It would be interesting to see the concentration of β-hydroxybutyrate when your urine is positive. I wonder if the β-hydroxybutyrate would get converted back into acetoacetate to get dumped. I’m not a pins and needles kind of person, so I don’t do blood tests, but I certainly see their usefulness in various situations.

I test breath acetone multiples times per day and experienced a huge spike one afternoon which I describe in the following. I suspect that I likely had acetoacetate dumped via urine at the same time and I suspect you probably would show elevated breath acetone when your urine test positive. Maybe.

Fat Adapted and Still Excreting Ketones in Urine: Survey :mag_right:
(Daisy) #16

5 weeks, both times. I highly recommend not needing to find out the second time. The first time I lost weight easily. Now, I just keep gaining weight. I wish more than anything that I hadn’t screwed it up the first time. :sob:

(Michael - When reality fails to meet expectations, the problem is not reality.) #17

@Janie @Regina You two piqued my curiosity so I bought a box of urine test strips while at the market today. I had intended to do so anyway so I could carry out this experiment sometime soon:

I’ve been in ketosis for 99% of almost the past 2 1/2 years and well enough fat adapted that I’m fully conscious and functional (most of the time :wink:). I’ve had low breath acetone (BrAce) all day (at or below 5ppm), even though I’ve been fairly active, at least active enough to burn some energy. For comparison I would usually be in the range of 10-20ppm. I haven’t eaten much today, so far less than 750 calories (and there’s no way I’m going to make it to 2700!) and I feel hungry. So for all intents I should be burning body fat and producing a solid level of BrAce. But I’m not! Go figure.

So I tested my urine. It was NOT zero! Somewhere between zero and the first colour on the chart, so somewhere between 0 and 0.05 mmol/L, probably closer to 0. Either that or I’m colour blind. So why would I be dumping acetoacetate when my liver is probably synthesizing less the usual amounts of it. Not much, to be sure, but detectable.

As I’ve said, this stuff is very complicated and often doesn’t behave like you’d expect.

(John) #18

I just tested with my last urine strip. Still showed solidly in the middle range - 40 mg/dL.

This is after almost 9 months, over 90 pounds lost. Had a fairly carby breakfast (yogurt, blueberries, pecans) and no lunch. Hunger is well managed, I don’t run out of energy if I don’t eat, and I am still losing weight so fat is being burned.

I am pretty sure that by now I am fat adapted. Yet the urine strips have always been in the 40 to 80 range every time I have tested since I started.

(Empress of the Unexpected) #19

I have - they always are at similar levels. Early on, I could not turn a pee stick purple no matter how low my carbs. This has started at one year in.

(charlie3) #20

I’ve been keto for may be 13 months. I believe fat adaption might progress rapidly in the beginning but continues to improve for years after that.