Coconut Oil, Is it harmful for some of us?


#1

https://bengreenfieldfitness.com/article/nutrition-articles/dark-side-coconut-oil-cautionary-tale-coconut-oil-extremists/

What led me to the above article was an only 2-day-so-far personal experiment of removing coconut oil from my daily food/drink intake to see if weight loss budged on the scale (I won’t go into my details here, because I have written them in other posts already).

After day one of cutting the CO, my hands were no longer puffy (which I thought was coming from too much salt) and I was down 1/2 lb, following day hands feel normal despite some very salty sausage day before and down 1 lb overnight. I am conflicted, and suppose only time will tell with abstaining from the CO, these improvements are so encouraging - HOWEVER, I am noticing two things since cutting CO, increased back pain (that had disappeared since Keto) and feeling hungry again sooner after eating. MS does run in my maternal side of the family and I am wondering if the information in the article is believable and I should avoid CO? I can say that I do not seem to have issues with other forms of coconut, I have actually had a small amount of coconut flour past two days…


(Michael - When reality fails to meet expectations, the problem is not reality.) #2

I’ll let others more qualified address the claims of the linked article. As for whether or not coconut oil may be harmful to some of us: yes, anything in sufficient quantity can be harmful including water. We each react/respond to nutrient input over a wide range as well as have individual nutrient sensitivities. The problem is sorting out all the confounding factors. Nothing happens in isolation, and the culprit often turns out to be something other than the obvious suspect. When the canary drops dead in the mineshaft we don’t waste time wondering what was wrong with the canary.


#3

I agree with your perspective and appreciate your insight :blush:


(squirrel-kissing paper tamer) #4

I understood it as go ahead and have the coconut oil, but add some veggies to your diet and things will be great, instead of just drinking coconut oil. Or you can add butter to your coconut oil but also have some veg.


#5

Thank you, I got a bit lost there in whether any was ok…might explain why I was having issues as I was basically eating almost pure coconut oil frozen into cubes (it was yummy, but won’t do that again).


Whole coconut oil and breath acetone (BrAce) observation
(squirrel-kissing paper tamer) #6

I jumped on the coconut oil train a while back until my intestines revolted and I promptly jumped off. I can have it in small amounts mixed with food but having it straight destroys my happiness.:grin:


(Michael - When reality fails to meet expectations, the problem is not reality.) #7

People eat it straight!? MCT, olive oil or avocado oil swigged straight out of the bottle? Never occurred to me. :face_vomiting:


Does everyone take a large swig of oil in the morning, or smaller swigs during the day?
(Carl Keller) #8

Listen to your body Graci. If it’s not taking well to coconut oil then decrease usage or even stop using it. If not using it means you are hungrier, then add more butter or avocado oil to what you are eating.

CO doesn’t agree with everyone.


#9

The extra virgin stuff (coconut oil) is delicious.


(Christine) #10

So I had heard from a functional doctor that coconut oil can cause some issues with the intestinal lining, but I countered with what if it’s only C8 (the brain octane from bulletproof). He said that might be ok. In some pharmaceuticals they use C10 to deliver drugs across the gut barrier bc it can open up a passage much faster.
(Check me on that, I don’t remember where I read that)

I have also been a bit broke and just using Aldi coconut oil in my coffee instead of a refined C8. And I may quit it bc I’ve had some bloating and my weight is stalled. I have been drinking XCT oil or Brain Octane for several years and the last 6 months I switched to the unrefined. I think you may be on to something. I just couldn’t tell you what exactly.


(Michael - When reality fails to meet expectations, the problem is not reality.) #11

That’s what I use. But I’d never think to eat it out of the jar with a spoon. Sure, lick the spoon clean after dumping the oil into whatever. :wink:


#12

I probably wouldn’t have initially either, but tried it for candida at the beginning of my keto journey and learned that it’s very pleasant and slightly sweet and coconutty.


#13

Greenfield’s article equates a linear progression of T-cell activation with undesirable gut permeability. By this standard, we should all be on a low fat diet since the length of the “desirable” fats disallows most real foods. The proposed solution to just “eat your friggin’ vegetables!” also falls short in a ketogenic context and possibly doesn’t make sense at all. I’m going to propose an alternate POV regarding short, medium and long chain fatty acids relating to gut health.

Disclaimer: I am against refined foods in general compared to whole food sources. I’m not a proponent of chugging large quantities of MCT or coconut oil. Trust me, it does not get absorbed well. :poop:

Look at the difference in vivo between MCTs which are part of coconut oil (C8, C10)and LCFA. MCTs go directly to portal vein during absorption in the duodenum (small intestine), while LCFA are absorbed into the lymphatic system. This is a crucial point because LCFA play a role in immune system. It makes sense that they would produce a different T-cell response. This is how the immune system samples and receives information about the state of invaders in your gut. It should not be confused with leaky gut endotoxins, which is a separate and pathological condition. Acute ingestion of even the concentrated MCT oils C6, C8, C10 do not provide a chronic condition under normal circumstances . Again, don’t chug this stuff – it’s self-limiting. If you react poorly, stop taking it.

Highly recommended listening on processed foods, fats and the immune system: https://thefatemperor.com/gabor-erdosi-on-the-primary-issues-which-drive-disease-part-1-2/

I’ve seen this demonization of fats before regarding cream and butter alledgedly causing leaky gut. Take a look at this study* disproving the association of milkfat** consumption with LPS endotoxin damage. The authors were looking to prove causation, but ended up disproving their hypothesis. The takeaway conclusions:

Based on previous reports, we hypothesized that the dietary lipid amounts could be directly linked to the extent of the onset of all these alterations. Our results are not consistent with our hypothesis. Indeed, we show that, in complex HFDs based on chow ingredients and milkfat, there was no association between dietary lipid amounts and the magnitude metabolic endotoxemia, low-grade inflammation and physiological alterations developed in response to the diets. http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0271531715000068

Another study* testing a high milkfat diet showed protective qualities when intentionally treated with exogenous lipopolysaccharide (LPS) a.k.a. toxins.

Because no mice fed the control diets survived at 48h , a comparison to those fed the milk fat diet was not possible. https://www.journalofdairyscience.org/article/S0022-0302(11)00196-2/fulltext

Finally, in a ketogenic context, colonic production of butyrate from fiber is optional and I don’t see how this applies to the small intestine anyway. Ketones are the end-product of colonic cell metabolism of butyrate and are directly related to colonocyte health. Having a concentration of ketones in the blood provides a ready substrate for these cells without obligate butyrate producing bacteria and vegetable fiber. A human study from Amber’s excellent article on butyrate: http://www.ketotic.org/2017/11/does-ketogenic-diet-confer-benefits-of.html?m=1

In both acute and quiescent UC [ulcerative colitis] oxidation of butyrate to CO2 and ketones was significantly lower than in the control tissues, and the decrease correlated with the state of the disease. https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(80)91934-0/fulltext

*Yes, these are mouse studies. So is the study from the original article.
**Milkfat composition info here: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2596709/


#14

Thank you for the great contribution, I have continued to abstain from both liquid and solid-state coconut oil, I am no longer seeing swollen hands daily (I was blaming too much salt and even my Magnesium supplement, because I didn’t know better at that time). I have also dropped another 1.5lbs, if I continue to lose, it will be the first loss that isn’t the same pounds bouncing back on since I started Keto 7 weeks ago, I am excited to see what happens next and just enjoying feeling much better :hugs:


#15

Awesome! Maybe you can experiment with eliminating some other foods that might be causing an immune response for you? Inflammation is driving both pain and insulin resistance.