Am I weird? 😂

(Jennibc) #8

My keto blood levels stay high when I have been drinking. I don’t lose weight, but I am still in ketosis. I typically don’t drink more than two shots of hard liquor when I drink though. I imagine drinking BEER would kick me out of ketosis or if I drank a margarita or anything with sugar in it.

(Michael - When reality fails to meet expectations, the problem is not reality.) #9

I would be very interested to test that. Would you be interested in doing a fairly simple experiment that does not require repeated blood tests?

(Michael - When reality fails to meet expectations, the problem is not reality.) #10

This is interesting:

(Bacon is a many-splendoured thing) #11

Dr. Phinney, in a recent lecture, states that alcohol metabolism does not inhibit ketogenesis. It was surprising to hear, since every one seems to think the opposite, but he of all people should know, if anyone does.

I believe this is the video, but please don’t beat me up, if it’s not. :fearful::grin:

(Eric - The patient needs to be patient!) #12

I usually gain a few lbs drinking 1 to 2 glasses of wine. But when I wake up in the middle of the night I have to drink water. I am very sensitive to dehydration signals.

The extra weight is gone the next day.

(Trudy) #13

This may not be popular and certainly not optimal health but I have a glass or two of wine most days, sometimes more, sometimes none, on most days of my Keto journey of over 12 months. I have lost weight and reached goal. I’m not condoning the use of alcohol but my n=1 is that alcohol has not impaired my nutritional Ketosis and has made this WOE sustainable for me.

(Jennibc) #14

Will it involve measuring blood levels? Because I am out of my strips and wasn’t planning on ordering any more because I used them for several months and got a sense of what worked and what didn’t.

(Jennibc) #15

Alcohol stops me from losing. I don’t gain, but I don’t lose. However, I have tested my blood after a night of drinking zero carbs spirits or a glass or two of wine and if I have otherwise stayed on plan, I am still in ketosis - either nutritional or optimal.

(Michael - When reality fails to meet expectations, the problem is not reality.) #16

No. A non-intrusive method to test whether your blood ketone levels “stay high” after consuming alcohol would be to test excreted urine hourly beginning one hour before consuming a measured amount and continuing hourly for about 24 hours, which would be about the time required to metabolize the alcohol completely. My original claim that blood ketones would drop was premised on the hypothesis that during alcohol metabolism ketone production would slow or stop and excretion increase to dump the now excess and unneeded ketones. I presume you are fat adapted and if so using urine strips shows very low excreted ketones. Or none.

I have since read that it’s possible that consuming alcohol could increase ketone production. In which case, the urine test would show nothing. So no change in the urine test over the full course of the experiment would be evidence against my original hypothesis. It would not, however, be evidence in support of alcohol increasing ketones hypothesis.

To test the hypothesis that alcohol metabolism actually increases ketone production, we would have to use hourly blood samples. Short some very strong incentives to do so, I don’t think there are many of us who would be willing to do that. I sure would not!

(Scott) #17

As someone that has never tested this makes me curious. This is the first time I have ever thought about getting a meter.

(Jennibc) #18

Wouldn’t that involve staying up for 24 hours straight if you have to do it hourly for 24 hours? I am afraid I am not willing to make that sacrifice. I am assuming I am fat adapted as well as I have been doing this for close to a year and taken off over 40 pounds while doing it. That said, I still show ketones on those strips at least the last time I checked a couple of months ago.

(Michael - When reality fails to meet expectations, the problem is not reality.) #19

The Alcohol Urine Experiment

Anyone is welcome to give this a go. The only prerequisites are you’re in ketosis and have been long enough to be fat adapted. I invite you to share your results or not. You can do this simply for your own information if you wish. Pick a couple of days when you can do a lot of urine testing without arousing suspicion :relaxed:

Do not consume any alcohol in any form for at least 48 hours before starting.

The first day is to establish a base line for comparison. Test urine for ketones 4 times: upon awakening, noon, 6 pm and just before going to bed. Record times/results. Eat/drink as usual during the day. Note: if you get other than zero as the base line for your first measurement, then do them every couple of hours rather than just 4 times.

The second day is data day. First urine test upon awakening. Immediately after, drink 28 grams of vodka. If you don’t have a gram capable scale, 28 grams is the equivalent of a single ‘shot’. If you can’t drink it straight, you can mix the vodka with whatever you like.

Test urine every hour. Record times/results. Eat/drink as usual during the day. It would be a very good idea to drink some water, tea or coffee during each hour so you don’t run out of samples.

Last test just before going to bed.

The hypothesis: Alcohol inhibits ketone production because the liver metabolizes the alcohol in preference to anything else until all the alcohol is used up. During the time the liver is metabolizing alcohol it does not produce new ketones. Since alcohol is used for fuel rather than blood ketones the supply of ketones in the blood are treated as excess and excreted in urine. So we should expect to see a rise in urine ketones above base line while the alcohol is metabolized and until blood ketones start being used for fuel again.

The Alcohol Urine Experiment
How long did it take for you to become fat adapted?
Ketone Blood testers
(Michael - When reality fails to meet expectations, the problem is not reality.) #20

No. This won’t be a controlled test to that extent. I think the single ‘shot’ of vodka or 28 grams is only enough to metabolize for several hours. I expect for most people who try this the alcohol will be out by bedtime.

(Jane) #21

No way to measure that since the breathylizers will pick up the alcohol you just drank :wink:

(Jane) #22

@amwassil

Do you plan on doing your own experiment any time soon?

(Michael - When reality fails to meet expectations, the problem is not reality.) #23

@Janie I have purchased a Ketonix and am awaiting arrival. After I have it I plan to do various testing of several things, including the alcohol test, and will post whatever info I gather.

You are correct that detecting acetone after drinking alcohol is problematic. The Ketonix won’t do it. But possibly the Levl would. Anyone willing to spring for a Levl? :roll_eyes:

(Jane) #24

Looking forward to your results!

(Michael - When reality fails to meet expectations, the problem is not reality.) #25

The hypothesis: Alcohol inhibits ketone production because the liver metabolizes the alcohol in preference to anything else until all the alcohol is used up. During the time the liver is metabolizing alcohol it does not produce new ketones. Since alcohol is used for fuel rather than blood ketones the supply of ketones in the blood are treated as excess and excreted in urine. So we should expect to see a rise in urine ketones above base line while the alcohol is metabolized and until blood ketones start being used for fuel again.

My Urine ketone test experiment:

Tue, Jul 30 Determined Baseline Urine Ketones
19:00 Trace: 5, 0.5

Test Procedure:

  • 19:30 Ethanol 1, half shot
  • 20:30 Ethanol 2, half shot
  • 21:00 BAC .17
  • 21:45 Ketones Trace: 5, 0.5
  • 22:00 Ethanol 3, half shot
  • 23:25 Ketones Trace: 5, 0.5
  • 23:30 BAC .16

Wed, Jul 31

  • 00:45 Trace: 5, 0.5
  • 00:45 BAC .15
  • 08:00 Ketones Negative: 0, 0.0
  • 08:00 BAC .0

Note: I have established that my urine ketone baseline previously and it has not changed. So last night’s pre-ethanol measure simply confirmed it. Thus, I did not bother doing multiple tests.

My result does not support my original hypothesis that urine ketones would rise when the liver started to metabolize ethanol. My urine ketones stayed at baseline. Interestingly, my urine ketones actually went to 0 overnight. I suppose that might be expected given that ketone synthesis was halted during ethanol metabolism and whatever acetoacetate was present in my urine originally was eliminated and not replenished.

(Michael - When reality fails to meet expectations, the problem is not reality.) #26

Any discussion specific to my urine experiment should be done in the following new topic, thanks:

(Jane) #27

Interesting.

As long as your BAC was above zero your blood ketones stayed at baseline. So were you metabolizing the alcohol and the ketones just floated around in your blood not being needed?

Then your ketones went to zero the next morning after all the alcohol was out of your system. Some might conclude that the alcohol stopped ketosis - at least temporarily. I’m sure you were back into ketosis by midday.