Dry Fasting. Is there any science to this?

(Jennifer Kleiman) #95

Adipose cells contain fat… All cells contain water. “Fat is needed for water” doesn’t work. Fat itself contains no water. Logically, if your body is drawing water from cellular reserves it would draw it from all tissues, not just adipose.

(TJ Borden) #96

Awe snap!!!

(If that’s still a saying, I’m not exactly hip to the jive)

(Dan Dan) #97

How Is Fat Burned?

So, when you lose fat, where does it go? Most people don’t really know. If you remember the Principle of Mass Conversion from chemistry, you’ll know that matter cannot simply appear or disappear—instead, it goes through chemical conversions and changes states. Just like your car’s engine turns gasoline into heat and exhaust, your body utilizes a similar process.

The mitochondria (cellular energy centers) in your muscle or liver cells pull some of the fat (stored as triglycerides) from within your fat cells and put it through a metabolic process. This converts the fat into heat, carbon dioxide, water, and ATP (adenosine triphosphate). Let’s break those down.

Heat: Heat energy is vitally important for being not-dead. You know how you, being a warm-blooded mammal, keep your body temperature right around 98.6 degrees Fahrenheit pretty much all the time? Yep, it’s by burning calories. When you’re cold, you burn way more calories to keep yourself warm. And in case you’re wondering just how much heat energy is stored within fat, next time you make a pan of bacon, pour the excess fat into a can and put a wick in it. You will be shocked by how long it burns.

ATP: As you may remember from our look at creatine, we need ATP for muscle function. Our primary source of immediate energy is produced when we break a phosphate molecule off the ATP, and it makes a little explosion of available power in your muscles. Then it becomes ADP, and it can’t be used again until it picks up another phosphate molecule. Krebs Cycle, baby. Basically, it carries fuel to your muscles.

Carbon Dioxide: Whenever you burn anything (see heat, above), it gives off carbon dioxide. It’s true with gasoline, and it’s true with body fat. The carbon dioxide will travel through your bloodstream until it returns to your lungs to be exhaled out.

Water: Fat typically feels kinda wet to the touch, right? That’s because there’s some water in it. You’ll pee it out.

So that’s where the weight actually goes when you lose it.

THE utilization by the body of ingested food substances and of tissue reserves yields among other things quantities of metabolic water. As the complete combustion of 100 gm. of fat produces about 110 gm. of metabolic water, whereas 100 gm. of carbohydrate yields only 55 gm. of water, fat reserves and fatty foods are believed to be particularly valuable as a protection against desiccation.

http://www.nature.com/articles/150021a0

(Jennifer Kleiman) #98

Sure, and fat is more energy-dense than protein & carbs. And yes, when fat is metabolized it will produce some water. But it does not logically follow that when you are dry-fasting, that your body will catabolize ONLY fat. Why wouldn’t it catabolize all tissues it can? It’s been shown that water-fasting is associated with various amounts of lean body mass loss in addition to fat loss. If we’re going to go with this unsourced “3x the power of water fasting” figure then you’d lose 3x the amount of lean body mass as well. Do you know of actual studies showing otherwise?

And do you know of any studies supporting this “3x the power of water fasting” idea, like I asked above?

(Dan Dan) #99

Different types of fasting put different stress and needs :thinking:

Just like IF takes longer to produce similar results as EF (water fasting) because of the different level of stress and needs.

so as
IF is to EF (water fasting)
EF (water fasting) is to Dry Fasting

(Jennifer Kleiman) #100

You can say anything but where is the evidence? In the words of @richard and @carl, show me the science!

(Dan Dan) #101

That fine its your choice to wait for ‘all the science to come out to satisfy you’ there is plenty of science and personal n=1 out there that verifies the validity of dry fasting. By your standards we should wait for ‘all the science to come out before we practice Keto’. I for one am not willing to wait on others when it comes to my health. I trust my research and careful approach to the practicing of my keto and fasting regimen.

Everyone must make their own choices and do their own research it’s out there for anyone willing to take the time to Google it :smiley:

(Jennifer Kleiman) #102

Link?

(Dan Dan) #103

This thread has given you a few you can use it as a starting place and Google it to do your own research. I have spent hundreds of hours of research on keto and fasting so that I can understand the studies and research and how it applies and can extrapolate one to another. Its clear you don’t trust the research of others so you should do your own research.

Google ‘dry medical fasting’

(Jennifer Kleiman) #104

See, the title of this thread is “Dry Fasting. Is there any science to this?” You are claiming there is. Is it truly impossible for you to provide even one link to a scientific study? I’m going to conclude, after having asked you directly three times, that it is impossible and you have no solid evidence to back up your claim.

(Dan Dan) #105

LOL There are both videos and links to several sources of studies and research on this thread all it takes is a click and some reading :thinking:

(Jennifer Kleiman) #106

Youtube videos and a link to an article on a site called “Interstellar Blends” lol. Guess what, I watched the video & read the Interstellar site. It had 2 links to studies on dry fasts, neither of which showed ANYTHING about the effectiveness of dry fasts compared to water fasts.

(Jennifer Kleiman) #107

And to be clear, of those 2 studies, one was on mice and petri dishes. and the other was on “water deprivation” meaning a restricted water intake, not a dry fast.

(Jennifer Kleiman) #108

The studies in question (and please note the direct linking to facilitate a discussion, instead of begging people to google it lol)

First study on water restriction:
https://www.karger.com/Article/Abstract/357718

Conclusion: The intervention of 5 FWD days in 10 healthy adults was found to be safe, decreased weight and all measured circumferences, and improved renal function considerably.”

FWD is food & water restriction, not dry fasting. And the conclusion doesn’t say anything about effectiveness compared to water fasting. And it’s just 10 people.

https://www.physiology.org/doi/full/10.1152/ajprenal.00037.2011

The present study explored the possibility that dehydration influences Klotho expression. Klotho transcript levels were determined by RT-PCR, and Klotho protein abundance was detected by Western blotting in renal tissue from hydrated and 36-h-dehydrated mice as well as in human embryonic kidney (HEK293) cells. Dehydration was followed by a significant decline of renal Klotho transcript levels and protein abundance, accompanied by an increase in plasma osmolarity as well as plasma ADH, aldosterone, and 1,25(OH)2D3 levels. Antidiuretic hormone (ADH; 50 nM) and aldosterone (1 μM) significantly decreased Klotho transcription and protein expression in HEK293 cells. In conclusion, the present observations disclose a powerful effect of dehydration on Klotho expression, an effect at least partially mediated by enhanced release of ADH and aldosterone.

Interesting, but again not relevant to human dry fasting compared to water fasting.

Abnormal kidney blood results
(Dan Dan) #109

Most of our theorys come from animal studies :thinking:
Did you read the research and studies on dry fasting and then compare them to water :thinking:
Did you research the doctors and clinics that perform medical and therapeutic dry fasting :thinking:

Keto has little research and its efficacy has to be extrapolated from similar studies and research.

(Jennifer Kleiman) #110

Keto has a ton of research, which I am more than happy to link if you like. I found 1 study on dry fasting in mice lookng at downregulation of klotho expression. How is that supposed to be compared to anything?

(Dan Dan) #111

I’m not begging I’m asking you to do your own research for your own bennift :thinking:

I don’t have to prove anything to you or anybody my n=1 and my research is all I need :smiley:

I was trying to help you but you repay my kindness with rudeness and insult :face_with_raised_eyebrow:

My bad for caring and sharing :open_mouth:

(Jennifer Kleiman) #112

I’m sorry you found this discussion insulting. I feel that you have dodged the question. You said there was science. I said “show me the science”. You said “go google it for yourself”. I did, although that is beyond the call of duty as normally the burden of proof is on the person who makes the claim, and showed that the science you claimed was linked is not relevant.

Ball’s in your court. If you make a claim and can’t back it up, and feel it is rude of me to point out this out, I’m sorry.

(Dan Dan) #113

I did but you ignored it because it did not fit your standards which is your right.

As I said the science for dry fasting (animal, metobolic,starvation, water deprivation, other fasting) is similar to that of Keto (animal, metobolic, low carb) in that most of the science is in similar studies and research and its efficacy has to be extrapolated along with current pratice :thinking:

(Jennifer Kleiman) #114

You didn’t link a single study, Dan.

There’s lots of studies of keto, and of intermittent fasting. Randomized controlled trials in humans, even.

https://blog.virtahealth.com/low-carb-research-comprehensive-list/