Dry Fasting. Is there any science to this?


(Dan Dan) #113

I did but you ignored it because it did not fit your standards which is your right.

As I said the science for dry fasting (animal, metobolic,starvation, water deprivation, other fasting) is similar to that of Keto (animal, metobolic, low carb) in that most of the science is in similar studies and research and its efficacy has to be extrapolated along with current pratice :thinking:


(Jennifer Kleiman) #114

You didn’t link a single study, Dan.

There’s lots of studies of keto, and of intermittent fasting. Randomized controlled trials in humans, even.

https://blog.virtahealth.com/low-carb-research-comprehensive-list/


(TJ Borden) #115

@Jennifer_Kleiman and @Dan_Dan, I’m loving this discussion, just remember we’re all on the same team. According to most doctors we’re all nuts. :crazy_face:

If we weren’t open to challenging commonly held ideas, none of us would be here.

I still question the benefits and validity of a dry fast, but a couple years ago I would have said the same thing about a water fast, and now that’s something I do regularly.


(Jennifer Kleiman) #116

The absence of evidence is not the evidence of absence. But I think we must agree that there is an absence of evidence.


(Dan Dan) #117

‘A Comprehensive List of Low Carb Research’

Thank you for proving my point the majority are low/moderate carb high protien research and only a few are ketogenic so most of the science has to be extrapolated :open_mouth:

I did several videos and links with sources you choose to ignore them because they don’t fit your standards and thats your right :thinking:

I am happy and confident in my research and n=1 :smiley:


(Dan Dan) #118

Ignoring evidence is not the same as absence :thinking:


(Dan Dan) #119

And that’s a good thing any kind of fasting should not be taken lightly :thinking:


(Dan Dan) #120

From one of the sources I posted above

WHY NO WATER?

The ketogenic diet (KD) is traditionally introduced with an initial period of fasting and fluid restriction. *Since the 1930s it has been known that fluid restricted fasting accelerates ketosis which in turn has positive effects on preventing epilepsy.

University of Nebraska Medical Center
The dehydration treatment of epilepsy pdf

http://digitalcommons.unmc.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1180&context=mdtheses&sei-redir=1&referer=https%3A%2F%2Fscholar.google.com%2Fscholar%3Fstart%3D10%26q%3D%22dehydration%22%2B%2Bketosis%2Bmtor%2B%26hl%3Den%26as_sdt%3D0%2C33#search="dehydration%20ketosis%20mtor"


(Richard Morris) #121

There is a mechanistic theory behind fasting humans needing less water.

Firstly we make a little water when we respire, water and C02. fat-oxidation (eg during fasting) generates more metabolic water, than mixed-fuel oxidation.

If you are a zebra finch you can make 6x the water when fasting.

Secondly when fasting we spare protein by not only reducing the rate we use it, but we also scavenging nitrogen from urea to make new amino acids (denovosynthesis). So with fewer waste products, we need less water to make urine.

This was elucidated in George Cahills starvation in man

The fact that we may be able to get by with less water when fasting has, I suspect, been conflated with taking in less water increasing some specific benefit of the fast.

I’ve not seen any studies to support that.

BTW: Before going keto I had already seen hundreds of papers on ketogenic diets, and there may have even been almost 100 in the 4 years since.


(Cameron) #122

There is a medical doctor in Russia who leads cancer patients through dry fasting; here is a .pdf of his book (badly translated, apologies: https://spiritsciencecentral.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/07/Dr.-Filonov-Dry-Fasting-Translated.pdf


(Dennis Giger) #123

What is the effect on blood sugars?


(Dan Dan) #124

Here is a good read with citation :thinking::smiley:

https://www.perfectketo.com/dry-fasting/#4


(Jonathan) #125

We naturally dry fast every night while we are sleeping so it is a naturally occurring phenomenon. When the body doesn’t get enough water from intake it is forced to break down fat for water as we are made up of 70% water.


(Ryan Robinson) #126

I actually found a study I didn’t see it in any of the comments I looked at before but it this is has alot of the same type of medical or atleast basic values I would look at if I did a study on something like this.


(Bunny) #127

I like Dr. Bergs take on the real science of this: fat solubable fluids (0% water, including fat soluble toxins) within the body are not the same thing as water, so the body being a certain % of water is a MYTH fasting or not? Do we actually think we are flushing something out besides electrolytes et al…?):

  1. Are we drinking water when we are thirsty?(body knows when it is thirsty?);
  1. …or are we purposely denying the body water when it is thirsty?
  1. Why are we drinking water when we are not thirsty? Who said what? Where is the actual science?

(Dan Dan) #128

@Ryan_Robinson good find this study is in the links I provided above with other good citation a good read so I’ll repost


(Bunny) #129

Nice!

EXCELLENT VIDEO visually explaining the 3 types of AUTOPHAGY (from “What is Dry Fasting?”):​

  1. MACROAUTOPHAGY
  1. MICRAUTOPHAGY
  1. CHAPERONE-MEDIATED AUTOPHAGY

(Dan Dan) #130

What I love most about this forum is that myself and many here have grown from

‘please help me I’m lost I don’t understand the science’ …to

‘show me the science’ …to

‘WTF … here is your show me the science plus some you would not have thought of but definitely relates and some n=1 just because I can :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye:

I love this forum promotes the growth of Mind, Body and Spirit :smiley:


(Doug) #131

I’d say not, Bunny - if we take the non-water fluids and put them with the rest of stuff in the body that’s not water, then all that remains - a given amount - will be water, no?

I’m still not sure about the advisability of dry-fasting, but definitely no drinking when doing it. Not sure of the harm of denying water to the body early on, i.e. when first thirst presents itself. Unless there are known issues, there could be benefits - improved kidney function and maybe improved blood circulation within the kidneys, as mentioned in that study?

Even just among the people on this forum, there’s a wide range of how much water is consumed, on average. Unless there is a medical reason like kidney stones, dark urine, etc., I see no rational need to drink when we’re not thirsty. There does seem to be a substantial amount of advice given to drink more than that - to start drinking before one gets thirsty.

My own anecdotal experience is that on many days I’ll just have a cup or two of black coffee, and that may be all the water I take in, especially if not eating.

The flipside was a day a couple weeks ago, working moderately hard in a slightly hot environment, and perspiring somewhat. Not much, a very small fraction of what maximum perspiration is. I got thirsty fast and drank 2 liters of water in an hour.


(Bunny) #132

Concomitant to Dr. Berg’s pouring water on raw bacon to dissolve it analogy; I suppose if I took a pound of sliced raw bacon and squished it between two paper towels, I suppose you would get a little water? Or a fluid resembling water? Or a fat soluable type of moisture?