Can you be Keto and get really fat?


(Gregory - You can teach an old dog new tricks.) #145

" small animal models "

Science with regard to humans?

I don’t think so.

If you also look at studies about ketosis for treating epilepsy, which while helping the epilepsy but
has undesired side effects, the fats used were mostly vegetable ( industrial ) oils. A lot of soybean oil.


(Ellenor Bjornsdottir (spare me thy resistant starch spiel)) #146

This would not make sense. Adenosine is a sleepy-time neurotransmitter. What caffeine does is antagonise its actions.


#147

On the other hand, inhibition of wake-promoting neurons via the A(1)R also mediates the sleep-inducing effects of adenosine, whereas activation of A(1)R in the lateral preoptic area induces wakefulness, suggesting that A(1)R regulates the sleep-wake cycle in a site-dependent manner.

A1 receptors are implicated in sleep promotion by inhibiting wake-promoting cholinergic neurons in the basal forebrain.[6] A1 receptors are also present in smooth muscle throughout the vascular system.[7]


Caffeine makes me sleepy and an expresso tightens up my lower back muscles. I’m also not addicted to caffeine and naturally gravitate towards physical activity. Therefore I have a lot of adenosine receptors and don’t suffer from what I shall call addict receptor resistance. Adenosine receptors diminish in caffeine drinkers the same way dopamine receptors diminish in alcoholics.


#148

There’s nothing defensive about my post. It’s neutral and basically pouring gasoline on the garbage and lighting a match in a controlled manner.

I noticed how you like to twist what I say to justify what you’re saying. You aren’t right and need to learn to admit when you’re wrong.

Stephanie keto person on YouTube is right and noticed the same thing I did about people claiming to truly be in ketosis yet drink caffeine or have this belief that just because they are urinating ketones out that they are in ketosis.


(Full Metal KETO AF) #149

@anon81060937 How do I get back all the 60 lbs I unjustly lost doing a ketogenic diet with caffeine? I feel like I was cheating loosing that weight now. :disappointed::joy::joy::joy::joy::cowboy_hat_face:


#150

It’s not that complicated. Just eat meat and eggs. Do not have any other options in your house. What are keto treats? Keto fudge? For weak people.


(Full Metal KETO AF) #151

I don’t eat that stuff either Joe but that’s a little judgmental calling people weak because they can’t let go of things as easy as you and I did. Yes, sugar addiction is strong and best left behind completely but if keto treats keep people from falling off the KETO way then it’s a better alternative than going back to sugar (a drug). :cowboy_hat_face:


(Michael - When reality fails to meet expectations, the problem is not reality.) #152

Thanks guys for bring that up! I just posted a new topic addressing that very issue, compliments of Amy Berger.


(Dirty Lazy Keto'er, Sucralose freak ;)) #153

Hmmmm. I dunno’ but it doesn’t feel like I could. I eat all I really care too, of all kinds of butter, cheese, fatty meats, bacon, fake bread, artificial sweeteners, etc, etc, and yet my weight stays rock solid.

I’m just really not trying to control anything about my diet, other than keeping my carbs down to around 20-30 a day… Which is so automatic for me at this point, I just hardly think about it.

Keeping on mind, I NEVER blamed my obesity on poor metabolism. I feel like I’ve always had a great metabolism, and was only obese because I ate rediculous amounts of all the wrong stuff (carbs)


(Michael - When reality fails to meet expectations, the problem is not reality.) #154

I mentioned one of my brothers here who tried to go keto at the same time I did in Jan 2017, but didn’t quite make it. He did, though, go much lower carb than he had been eating previously. One of his ‘wrong stuff’ was soda, both diet and regular. He eliminated that plus a few other carb big ticket items. He has lost significant weight and feels overall much healthier. Just cutting carbs makes life so much easier for many of us.


(Dirty Lazy Keto'er, Sucralose freak ;)) #155

I’m drinking about 3 to 6 diet Shasta sodas a day. LOVE that they are sweetened with Sucralose :wink: And that they are about $2.79 a 12 pack.


#156

Same. My metabolism is a bit quick (and very quick if I overeat on a carby diet), me becoming borderline obese was clearly the result of eating too much food. Like, WAY more I should have. My genetics are great for maintanence, keto is great for maintenance… Losing fat is still a challenge.

Of course, some people truly have poor metabolism or other problems, interestingly working bodies… Some people work hard to maintain or just gain slowly… I am a lazy, uncontrolled hedonistic one, I can blame only myself! I blame carbs and with reason. It works for my distant past but now it’s up to me to avoid them. It’s so nice to know we are to blame as it means we have the means to change!

I tried sucralose and it totally sucks. I have a theory all super sweet sweetener has a horrible aftertaste and requires several thousand times as much xylitol to make it passable in certain items (fruits work best, it shouldn’t go anywhere near coffee or cocoa). Of course, it’s true only for people with tastebuds like me and my family.


(Dirty Lazy Keto'er, Sucralose freak ;)) #157

Well, as long as your sure it was Sucralose (or Splenda) and it tastes horrible to you, I believe that’s possible because of genetic differences in our taste buds.
I can’t drink any kind of tea without it tasting bitter and nasty ?

Now, I think most other sweeteners natural or artificial taste anywhere from just weird, to downright horrible. But Sucralose just tastes sweet to me with zero aftertaste… And I have zero concern over it’s safety. Personally speaking, I think eating a bunch of Sucralose “instead” of a bunch of sugar and corn syrup has been a huge plus for me… Or, looking at the scale, a huge minus :wink:


#158

It was sucralose mixed with a lot of xylitol (my favorite sweetener, it’s so tasty! way better than normal sugar). I only stand xylitol and erythritol. Stevia is even worse than sucralose, it has a worse, maybe more bitter taste, it’s hard to explain the individual odd tastes of sweeteners but sucralose has a throat coating aftertaste and that troubles me.
I know people taste things very differently. I don’t even feel the often mentioned coolness of my sugar alcohols anymore. They are normal to me now.


(Ellenor Bjornsdottir (spare me thy resistant starch spiel)) #159

hydrocortisone is chemically identical to cortisol


(Bunny) #160

Differences between Cortisol and Cortisone and how it turns off or turns on body fat oxidation; catecholamines (noradrenaline/epinephrine)?

[1] ”…Hydrocortisone and cortisone are identical short-acting corticosteroids. However, they are not the same. Cortisone is an inactive prodrug that is converted into hydrocortisone, or cortisol, in the liver. Hydrocortisone works as a topical medication whereas cortisone is not as effective as a topical treatment. …” …More

[2] ”…Only a small percentage of circulating cortisol is biologically active (free), with the majority of cortisol inactive (protein bound). As plasma cortisol values increase, free cortisol (ie, unconjugated cortisol or hydrocortisone) increases and is filtered through the glomerulus. …” …More

[3] What is free Cortisol: When the adrenal glands make cortisol, it can circulate bound up to its carrier protein (almost like a person riding on a bus) or it can circulate free (not on the bus). The most common carrier protein is called Cortisol Binding Globulin (CBG) while it binds to a lesser extent to Albumin. When a hormone is bound to its carrier protein, it does not have the ability to act. Only once it unbinds (gets off the bus) and becomes ‘free’ is it able to be active in the body. Free cortisol makes up only about 1% of the overall cortisol produced, but it is an important fraction because it is the biologically active fraction.

Cortisol typically rises quickly upon waking and then slowly drops throughout the day. The measurements of free cortisol (and to a lesser extent free cortisone) are used to assess this up-and-down pattern. While free cortisol is an important measurement, it does not necessarily reflect overall production of cortisol. The metabolites of cortisol are a better marker of cortisol production. …More

[4] What is Metabolized Cortisol? Metabolized cortisol is the sum of a-tetrahydrocortisol (aTHF), b-tetrahydrocortisol (bTHF), and b-tetrahydrocortisone (bTHE). They are a good indication of the total cortisol output from the adrenal gland or clearance out the body. You’ll notice these numbers are much larger than that of free cortisol because they represent a much larger fraction of the overall cortisol produced. Total adrenal gland output is important to know in comparison to the free cortisol levels. For example, if someone has low free cortisol, this does not necessarily mean their adrenal glands are not producing very much cortisol. It only means their free cortisol is low. They may have normal or high levels of total (metabolized) cortisol which is often addressed/treated differently than if someone had low free cortisol and low total (metabolized) cortisol. When free cortisol is lower (in a relative sense) than metabolized cortisol, it implies that cortisol clearance/metabolism may be higher than normal. In the following example the patient shows low levels of free cortisol even though production of cortisol is quite high (implying high cortisol metabolism/clearance).

In the above example, cortisol metabolism seems to be up-regulated. In the following example, the opposite may be true. …More

[5] What Leads to more Cortisol or more Cortisone?

Hypothyroidism, licorice root extract, grapefruit, inflammation, visceral obesity (belly fat), high insulin, and excess sodium can make a person lean more towards the active form cortisol.

Hyperthyroidism, human growth hormone, ketoconazole, quality sleep, magnolia, scutellaria, zizyphus, testosterone, and citrus peel extract influence the deactivation of cortisol and lead to a cortisone preference. …More


(Ellenor Bjornsdottir (spare me thy resistant starch spiel)) #161

your entire message supports what I’ve said about hydrocortisone and cortisol


(Doing a Protein Sparing Modified Fast) #162

I completely agree with these explanations:

  • Despite being fat adapted, I need to control the amount of calories.
  • Carb creep: yes, it exists for me.
  • Yes, protein satiates more than fat.

(Robin) #163

I don’t personally know anyone like that. But if decide to eat late at night (my old standby), I can gain some weight… even if I only eat meat. So I’m pretty sure there are folks out there who have gained weight back while still being keto. It’s an interesting idea…. What would their overall health be while obese on keto?


(Robin) #164

Good point. You don’t have to go full on keto to see benefits and for many folks that may be the answer.