Scared to start fasting - I'm always hungry!

fasting

(Gregory - You can teach an old dog new tricks.) #8

Regards the antacid: I assume you are talking about heart burn. Correct me if I’m wrong.

I discovered a few years ago, before I went grain free and low carb in general, that it was food combinations that gave me heart burn. Mostly eating bread with meat or cheese. Meat by itself never did it.

Now I find it happens with stuff like adding commercial mayo to my tuna, or eating ribs with a big salad that is otherwise Keto friendly.

Your food list includes things I would be concerned about such as soy products . What’s in the gravy? What’s in the dark chocolate? What’s in the mayo?

I would suggest an elimination diet where you only eat meat ( fatty cuts ), eggs and cheese, homemade chicken or other meat broth… Eat large portions, until you feel full… Drink some broth if you get hungry between meals.

It shouldn’t take more than a few days to find out if eating in such a way helps.

After that, you can start introducing other foods, but you should only do it one food at a time, along with the other foods I mentioned.


(Michael - When reality fails to meet expectations, the problem is not reality.) #9

You may not be eating enough, or too much of the wrong stuff. The following stood out to me:

A typical day of eating for me would be; coffee, soy cream and tablespoon of coconut oil, two eggs scrambled with mushrooms small amount of red bell pepper and spinach. Lunch is cucumber and goats cheese with home made avocado and mayo dip, dinner is some form of protein and broccoli / cauliflower with butter and gravy. I generally have the same food every day, I eat dark chocolate and pecans as a treat.

I’d cut: soy cream, mushrooms, bell pepper and spinach, cucumber, mayo dip (depending what you put in it - especially the oil - PUFAs may be an issue for you), broccoli / cauliflower, gravy, dark chocolate and pecans. None of these things is particularly bad by itself, but you may be eating way more carbs than you realize. If you feel you must eat veggies, or just want to eat them, I suggest you consider replacing all of the above with bok choy. It’s loaded with micros and has fewer carbs than pretty much any other veg so you get a lot of bang for your buck nutritionally and carb-wise. It tastes good, too, like a combo of celery and romaine.

As for the fasting: that’s an optional extra on keto. Eat more, get and keep your carbs sub-20 grams per day and maybe you’ll stop feeling hungry all the time. You just might start losing weight again.

Being hungry all the time is a signal that you are not eating enough. If you don’t heed that signal, you will slow your metabolism and make losing weight more and more difficult. Eventually you will give up.


#10

This thread interested me because I am just not hungry today. It comes and goes with me which is why it becomes confusing. But I think the reason you are afraid of not eating anything is your heartburn. That can become really painful. I know because once upon a time I needed omeprazol myself. Have you ever been thoroughly checked? Do you have helicobacter in your stomach? Do you have a form of excess excretion of stomach acid? Because I think I would most definitely be afraid of having an empty stomach with too much acid in it. Its like there is nothing for the acid to burn but the inner walls of my stomach! Some people gain a lot of weight because they have an ulcer not in their stomach, but in their small intestine which they never even knew about. They eat so their small intestine is relieved of the pain. Whatever-but a thorough check up by a real gastrointestinal expert might be called for?
Besides this though, I think chocolate and nuts have stalled me.


(Allie) #11

I still haven’t noticed the decreased hunger and I’m six years in :joy:


(Susan) #12

Welcome to the forum, Bethany =).

Keeping your carbs at 20 grams or less is the most important thing for me personally (still this for me, even after a year of doing Keto), and eating enough =) of proteins, healthy fats, drinking enough water and electrolytes, no sugar and (for me personally, no sugar substitutes or I don’t lose weight and have cravings for them).

I had issues of heartburn, (used to take Tums often pre-Keto), high blood pressure, bad asthma, frequent headaches, stomach bloating, terrible, constant aches and pains in my joints -and other things, all Pre-keto — all of this has been resolved since Keto (my asthma is not gone but I rarely use my puffers and it has only been bad when I had a cold/flu thing for about 2 weeks).

I use a free app called cronometer.com to track what I eat.

I generally suggest for people just starting Keto to try to eat 3 meals a day and to try to not snack between the 3 (but eat enough at the three so that you don’t feel a need to snack) and then have at least 12 hours from your supper to breakfast, to give your body that time to burn the fats in your body --most of that time you will be sleeping ideally.

This is an idea of a day’s meals that should do this for you:

Breakfast:

4 scrambled or fried eggs (in 2 tablespoons of butter)
4 pieces of pork bacon
1 coffee with MCT powder and/or coconut oil and/or butter or HWC (if it doesn’t bother you, I am doing Dairy free atm so I cannot have this but I do love it, hehe). You could also use a Keto coffee creamer (there is a wide variety of them available on Amazon).

Lunch:

1 cup romaine lettuce
1 can of water packed tuna
2 tablespoons of Chosen foods or Primal Keto Mayonnaise (other mayonnaise has seed oils that we don’t want to ingest on Keto)
1 pickle, chopped up in little pieces (and/or 3 olives chopped up)
Coffee or tea if you want some --with a fat in it (as mentioned above in the breakfast).

Supper:

Protein of your choice: a nice steak, salmon, fish, chicken, lamb, pork, whatever suits your fancy =)
Low carb vegetables (bok choy, cabbage, cauliflower, broccoli, etc).
I love the Caullfower Rice that you can make yourself by grating cauliflower or buy already made (Costco sells a 6 pack of envelopes that you can cook in the microwave that is very delicious). I cook regular rice in my rice cooker for the rest of the family and a bag of that for myself. I live with 4 others in my family that are not doing Keto, so I just make all the food, and often the protein selection we can all eat. An example of this is last night I made Breakfast sausages, and then regular rice for them and I fried up cabbage for everyone =).

It is important that you are eating enough; after you are on Keto for a while, (a few months) and become Fat adapted, then you might not be hungry enough to eat 3 meals a day and will want to reduce this to two. I personally now wat my lunch at 1pm and supper at 4:30 and I “Fast” daily from 5pm until 1pm the next day -called TMAD (two meals a day) 20:4 (not eating for 20 hours a day, 4 hours I have the 2 meals, no snacking between) called IF (intermittant fasting). I didn’t do this until I was on Keto for months though and was fat adapted, and I built up to it as well. I did 12:12, then slowly increased the times until I got to 20:4 that I have been on for ages now and I am very comfortable with that. Don’t force anything, and take your time, though =). Keto is awesome but it is a slow and steady lifestyle change; not meant to be a crash diet to just lose and then regain it all, and be on the yo-yo cycle (that I was personally on from 11-54). Keto is freeing and and for life.

I wish you the best, and if you have any more questions, just post away and we will all tell you what we have found helpful and will be cheering you on =)).


(Michael - When reality fails to meet expectations, the problem is not reality.) #13

I’ll also mention, thank you @Chantarella & @Momof5 for addressing heartburn, that one of the things that happened to me early on after starting keto was I no longer suffered hearburn, reflux and indigestion. These, along with severe flatulence, had plagued me my entire life. Within a couple of weeks of starting keto they were gone - and have stayed gone!

@Bethany I suspect you may be borderline ketosis and probably in/out all day, which is not a good place to be. You’ve cut carbs to the point where they are insufficient to fuel your daily activities, but you’re not burning enough fat and ketones to take up the slack. Hence, the constant hunger and other symptoms of distress. You have to go for one or the other. ‘Low carb’ works for many who don’t want to go full keto. One of my brothers could not make the transition to keto, but still went ‘lower carb’ and is doing well, lost weight and feels good overall. One size does not fit all.


Can you be Keto and get really fat?
#14

If you eat the same every day, it’s easy to track a day, it may be informative. Reading about your food intake, I can easily imagine you eat too little or too much not satiating stuff. What is satiating? It’s individual. To me, fatty protein. So I pretty much avoid vegetables, added fat, cream when I am serious.
Dark chocolate and nuts? I would overeat every day with those for sure… I have a thing for them and they never satiated me.
But if I am hungry, I eat, it’s very obviously the only right action to me. But I should choose proper food then too.

I don’t understand a few things people do. Why don’t they EAT when they are hungry? Yeah, it may be ballooning up on high-carb for many but it’s surely rarely the case on keto…
Why do they want to fast if they can’t? If you are hungry, break your fast. If you really want your fast, change your food, your eating window, wait for longer and make your fat adaptation deeper or something, I am not good with this, I had a sudden change… So try things but if you are hungry, really hungry, eat. At least I would do that for sure. I always did IF quite naturally. I stopped having a meal when I never was hungry at that time. Keto automatically diminish our eating window in many cases - but it’s not the way for each and every persons. I don’t think we should really force it…


(Joey) #15

Yes, indeed…

Add me to the list of former-heartburn-sufferers - and even worse, GERD.

Within 3 weeks of cutting out the carbs, all those problems just disappeared … and 9 months later, still nevermore a problem. What liberation.

For me it seemed to be the combination of carbs with other stuff (spicy pizza toppings, greasy steaks, cheeses, hot dogs…) . Now, I eat all the other stuff (spicy pizza toppings, greasy steaks, cheeses, hot dogs…) with no problems whatsoever.

Turns out, the culprits were those buns, rolls, crust, potatoes, etc. that were actually the problem when combined with the meats/fats. Not the meats/fats in isolation.

Food for thought. :man_shrugging:


(J) #16

Absolutely worth exploring. Good luck!


(Bethany Greenwood) #17

Sadly I’ve already cut out dairy, gluten and now carbs and I am still unable to stop taking my antacids. I put up with the discomfort for 6 weeks before it started to get me down so much (disrupting sleep and distracting me from work) that I went back on it. I haven’t pushed to get it investigated thoroughly as I have so many other things that need tending to, it has just taken a back seat. But maybe now so much else is under control, I can look at finding the root cause.

I am currently dairy free as my other conditions flare up when I eat dairy but I have been off and on with soy and never noticed any difference. I have only recently (6 weeks) started eating nuts regularly so maybe I’ll cut those out. Also didn’t think about stupid oils in the mayo. Yes I am VERY sensitive to those oils so I’ll be making my own mayo from now on!!

I do find it really hard to find keto recipes that are dairy and sweetener free. But I’ll check out the recipe section here and I’m sure I’ll get more ideas to get into a more consistent keto state.

I also worry about cutting out broccoli and spinach as I suffer with anemia.

Thanks you @Momof5 for that day plan, I’m going to follow that pretty close for the next few weeks with some variation for me personally.

Thank you all so much for your advice!! I feel like I have some things that I can try and change to get back on track!! :smile:


(Susan) #18

I really hope that you can tweak some things and figure it all out, we all want you to succeed =). Please keep us posted!


(Utility Muffin Research Kitchen) #19

This is very good advice. We often start craving certain foods if we lack a nutrient. For example, most people will notice that salty food tastes a lot better if they’re salt depleted. But if it’ just hunger in general, I have a different hypothesis what causes it:

That’s a fairly heavy mix of lectins (soy, coffee, bell pepper) and oxalates (spinach, broccoli, dark chocolate and pecans). I’d eliminate those from the diet.

The fact that you need an antacid speaks very clearly that you’re sensitive to some antinutrient, probably one or several of the lectins. My heartburn immediately stopped after I went to a low-lectin diet. (Bell peppers, peanuts or raw tomatos will give me immediate heartburn even today, almost a year later. Some FODMAPs like xylitol too.) Steven Gundrys Website has free information about which foods are high in lectins and which are low lectin keto friendly (look for his yes/no list).

I wouldn’t start fasting before you can go 22h without being hungry. Find the right mix of nutrients, and you’ll notice that you get less hungry with time. (Most likely.)


(Bethany Greenwood) #20

Oh, this is really interesting! I will definitely look into this more!!


(Bethany Greenwood) #21

I will keep you updated :smile:


(Gregory - You can teach an old dog new tricks.) #22

Vegetables are poor sources for most micro nutrients because of their reduced bio availability.

Here is a good article on vegetables.
Are Vegetables Good for You?

A chart from that article that I think you may find useful.


#23

the best thing against anaemia is red meat. Not veg,


(Michael - When reality fails to meet expectations, the problem is not reality.) #24

Totally agree plant sources of most nutrients are inferior to animal sources.

But if you think you need (or just want) veggies:


(Bethany Greenwood) #25

So here are the 3 things I’ve realised by talking to you guys, the things that are going to change right now,

  1. no more mayo (until I make it myself or find an alternative that has good oil in it)
  2. eat more food (I was calorie restricting unconsciously)
  3. eat more salt. Although I have been putting salt in everything, the way I devoured my avocado that was covered in salt this morning feels like a sign that my body is after more salt. Not loads more, but just a top up.

(Full Metal KETO AF) #26

Vegetable sources of iron aren’t very bioavailable. Especially with spinach there are anti nutrients in the spinach that bond with the iron making the majority of not absorbable. I recommend red meat, liver, oysters, and duck as solid heme iron sources for much better absorption.

As far as the heartburn and GERD I suffered for 25 years from it. I have s hiatal hernia so going KETO improved it but didn’t fix it right off. First I made the mistake of trying to quit cold turkey several times from Omeprazole. When I finally quit it was taking it every other day then every third day. If I had an attack I took a dose for a couple of days. The biggest thing was nighttime when I laid down. I always slept propped with three pillows. When I stopped eating after 4pm when I finished a big meal I would be full enough till sleep. I found that I slept much better with an empty stomach. I also discovered a sensitivity to cooked down tomatoes like marinara sauce. I’m okay if I eat it early most times but too close to bed can be a big problem for me. Bread was never an issue, carbs seem to calm my stomach so it was tough cutting them. I used to wake up in the middle of the night sleepless with cramps in my limbs and carbs fixed it so I could go back to sleep. Both problems are gone now, I sleep without heartburn 99 out of 100 nights, I take an Omeprazole if I need one then. I too wake up hungry fairly soon, I like eating early in the day unlike many others here. So I eat breakfast about 10 and dinner at 3-4pm now most days. I’m in maintenance so I’ve loosened up and actually eat when I want now often but my stomach feels healed and fixed mostly so eating closer to bed isn’t the issue it was a year ago in my early KETO days. I hope you find a working way of eating for yourself and have less issues as you go forward. :cowboy_hat_face:


(Bethany Greenwood) #27

I didn’t have time to look at this fully, are you a carnivore @OldDog ? because the article doesn’t seem to talk about Vit C, My understanding is its needed to support iron absorption, is that not true?
I am not at all against supplements, I take many, but I’m not comfortable with taking a supplement that I could easily get from food.