Very interesting N=1 trying to test that Sat Fat causes weight loss

(Edith) #33

Nope, not a forest plot, so you’re good. :grinning:

#34

I sure would like to have my first meal bruch be keto croissants with cocoa butter stuffed with canadian bacon & cheese, along with coffee/raw milk/MCTs. :croissant: Maybe can work with some of the below recipes to swap in cocoa butter!

These are really French style flaky apparently - using micellar casein (from cheese curds):

I went looking, and this is French-produced grassfed casein powder, used in small amounts as a baking agent - but can also be eaten as protein, for those who aren’t casein-sensitive. Pricey, but the amounts used for baking are small, so I’ll keep it in mind:

These fellows look like crescent rolls from the can, doughy-like, and ideal for sausage rolls w/ extra saturated fat!

(Jenna Ericson) #35

Bunny, If what you’re saying is that type 2 diabetes is a pathological inability to oxidize carbohydrates, in contrast to typical healthy people who can metabolize carbs easily with no metabolic ill effects, then what is the cause of the inability to oxidize carbohydrates and why does this inability now seem to exist in such a huge segment of the population? If there is no cause and no cure are you saying it is solely genetic? If that’s the case why does there seem to have been such a steep rise in T2D over the last few decades? Also, even if, by your standards, keto is not a cure, it still mitigates the symptoms to the point where the condition is no longer harmful, in which case, isn’t your statement just a difference of semantics?

(Bob M) #37

A short note here. I’ve been testing this using cocoa butter, which is relatively high in stearic acid. I believe it’s working. For instance, I’ve been getting so freaking “full” after eating now. This morning, as an example, I could not even attempt to eat. Since I haven’t been eating breakfast for oh years, I am usually not that hungry, but this is different, in that I am full. I could not eat if you tried to make me eat.

I’ve ordered some shea butter, which supposedly is even higher in stearic acid, to test. I’ll see what happens.

I’m still looking for stearic acid that’s verified as stearic acid (some is actually less than half stearic acid) and that’s not hydrogenated.

(Jenna Ericson) #38

So is this protons theory suggesting that localized insulin sensitivity can cause systemic insulin resistance?

(Bunny) #39

Fat deposits that build up in muscle tissue especially the gluteus maximus. It is hard to see this because biopsies would probably be too expensive and painful.

The skeletal muscle does not get much attention in the way metabolic dysregulations because it is so difficult to study in contrast to the other preferred studied causes of obesity and diabetes.

The accumulation of intramyo/hepatic cellular lipids/triglycerides also goes un-noticed from the left over vestiges of visceral fat accumulation.

The huge segment of the effected populations around world eating excessive processed carbohydrates or a simple carbohydrate rather than more traditional or natural complex carbohydrates is most likely the cause of this intra-lipid muscle tissue accumulation and thus the obesity and diabetes epidemic.

Insulin simply can no longer distinguish between muscle or adipose tissue nor can the muscle interact with the storage and oxidation processes or something to that affect when micro-lipidation infiltrates lean skeletal muscle mass.

One person can go a ketogenic diet and boom they burn body fat like it’s nothing and the next person is not so lucky because it is all dependent on the degree of lean skeletal muscle that has been infiltrated by this micron-lipidation?

The particular muscle groups that is most devastated by this is the gluteus maximus and then all the other skeletal muscle follow including the entire metabolism (RMR/BMR/EER) micro RNA and methylation processes.

Virta Health has clearly and clinically demonstrated that you can increase complex carbohydrate intake along with dietary fats.

Metabolic Syndrome Diagram I've Been Working On
(Central Florida Bob ) #40

I almost bought some chunks of cocoa butter last night on an Amazon shopping trip, until my wife said (in a Monty Python-esque voice) “how do you cook it?” and then the more realistic “what do you do with it?”

I didn’t buy it because I couldn’t answer that. Do you just eat a chunk? Fry in it? Since stearic acid is an 18-carbon saturated fat, it’s going to be waxy in texture at room temperature. How do you determine how much cocoa butter to consume?

(Jack Bennett) #41

You could probably cook with it in the same way as you would cook with butter or coconut oil or beef tallow. Depending on flavors, etc. What does pure stearic acid triglycerides taste like?

(Scott) #42

You can’t see the forest plot for the trees

(Bob M) #43

I have been testing eating cocoa butter. How much do I eat? Some. I have not been weighing it. This weekend, I’m going to create a fat with butter, cocoa butter, and shea butter. I’ll put it in molds and will try to test how much I’m eating.

My experiences so far. After eating my “morning” meal (I usually eat two meals a day), I usually am not hungry for a while. By adding cocoa butter to this, I’d characterize it as follows. If 10 = you could hold a gun to my head, and I wouldn’t eat any more; and 1 = I’m very hungry, I’d say my normal morning meal is maybe a 6-7. With cocoa butter added, it’s 9-10.

Put it this way, I was hungry at 10 am. I had 4 eggs, ham, blue and goat cheese. I had a small amount of chicken stock and a good handful of cocoa. It’s 4:14 pm (16:14 for those of you using 24 hour clocks), and I am not hungry at all. Zero hunger. None. It’s still an 8 or 9. I have no desire to eat at all. And it’s been 6 hours since I ate. I might not eat again today, though likely will (due to the family having dinner).

Of course, I cannot say it’s all due to cocoa butter’s stearic acid content. It could be calories or something else. But when I was on high fat, I could eat avocados, olive oil, and other high fat products, and still be hungry. With cocoa butter, I’m not. At all.

(Central Florida Bob ) #44

As a corollary experiment, I’m trying to increase saturated fat. Those who have tried will understand when I say it’s not as straightforward as you may think. The exact makeup of the fats we eat isn’t always easy to find.

This is based on your reports, the original link to Fire In a Bottle, and just the observation that saturated fats seem uniquely satiating.

More cheese, more butter, less mayo (homemade - olive and avocado oils), fewer nuts.

(Bob M) #45

Bob, I think it’s a good idea. I’ve known about this theory that saturated fat causes fat cells to be insulin resistant (edited: incorrectly put “sensitive” here) for a long time now. I just didn’t know how to test it.

You are totally correct. Each “fat” is actually many different fats. And “saturated fat” itself isn’t monolithic. For instance, stearic acid seems to have this effect, but the effect for palmitic acid is less, even though they are both saturated fats. Yet another consequence of this idiotic demonization of “saturated” fat.

This is why I’m going to try shea butter, as it’s high in stearic acid but lower in palmitic acid. If you like books on science, this is a good book in this area:

Well, I did not eat again yesterday. The thing is that every time I have cocoa butter with my lunch, I don’t want to eat. I do eat because the family is having dinner. Last night, I picked up Daughter #1 at 8:30pm, and we did not get home until 8:45pm, so I did not eat. Today, I’ll likely be full again, but I’ll eat dinner because I pick up both kids, and we go home at 7:30pm, where the wife will have dinner ready.

(Michael - When reality fails to meet expectations, the problem is not reality.) #46

@ctviggen Bob, you’ve aroused my interest. Bought some cocoa butter today. I may also try sheas butter as well when I can find some. Thanks.

(Kristen Ann) #47

This is an interesting experiment. Just curious why cocoa and shea butter over beef fat? I eat cocoa butter in my BPC, and I don’t notice a big difference in satiety. But it’s also melted so maybe that causes a differnece. However, eating beef fat does huge things for me… Satiety, energy, mental clarity, reduced inflammation (possibly?). But I often gag trying to get it down…

(Edith) #48

Just wait. When you’ve been keto long enough you will wish your meat had more fat. :grinning:

(Kristen Ann) #49

Ugh I don’t know. I’ve been keto a year. I’ve tried drowning the beef fat in hot sauce to mask the taste. I tried squishing it between two pieces of cheese to mask the texture. I’ve tried finely chopping it up and adding it in other foods/meats but I’m still struggling. Today I cut raw beef fat into swallow-able sized pieces, but I had to drink so much water to get all of the pieces down that I thought the water was going to come right back up.

(Michael - When reality fails to meet expectations, the problem is not reality.) #50

Just curious. Are you carnivore or trying to become so? If not, there are lots of good saturated fats other than cubed beef fat. Why are you trying to force yourself to eat it?

(Kristen Ann) #51

No I’m not carnivore. I have serious health issues and notice when I eat beef fat, my symptoms improve. I think it’s the stearic acid, but I don’t get the same effect from eating cocoa butter.

(Michael - When reality fails to meet expectations, the problem is not reality.) #52

Maybe you’re way ahead, but possibly may find this helpful:

fat.pdf (66.8 KB)

I notice that lard is very similar in fat composition to beef tallow. It has more stearic acid than tallow, if you think that’s the significant ingredient. Lard also has more linoleic and less palmitoleic acids. You may find lard more palatable than tallow.

(Kristen Ann) #53

Thanks for your help. I do have pork fat in my freezer but I’m trying to avoid Omeg-6 f.a. because I think they cause me problems :confused: