Vegan Diets are the healthiest, according to new study

(Bunny) #41

Except for the meat part it is close to a ketogenic diet but it would still be difficult to maintain (without meat) and also because of the lack of enough exogenous fat (cholesterol; HMG-CoA Reductase) and too much sugar in the diet leading to future cardiovascular, diabetes and Alzheimer’s disease etc? (biomarkers look good now but what is the efficacy with that long-term?)

Here is the problem though, and most important thing to remember and that is the biomarkers or benchmarkers that are being used as the quotients idea of “healthiest diets*” are being compared to a healthy sugar burner (lean mass or highly muscular) and therein lies the problem and we all know what happens in that case long-term as you can see above?

The ketogenic dieting community should have a different set of biomarkers* so our physicians could have something like a physicians desk reference and laboratories should also have a different set of testing benchmarkers* to make a clear distinction between exclusive sugar burners and glucose/ketone burners?

As Dr. Boz and Hyperlipid point out just carb up 3 days before your phlebotomy lab tests or OGGT and you will look “normal?” To me that is scary??? This whole “healthiest” vegan looks like a Wolf in Sheep’s clothing?

*See Also: Low carb diets could shorten life (really?!) - Dr. Zoe Harcombie PhD

(Todd Allen) #42

I keep hearing “keto is not sustainable”, “we don’t know the long term health impacts of keto”, and “keto is a fad”. I think these comments confuse keto with veganism. I say “please, pass me the butter”.

(Bunny) #43

Traditional Inuit children do in fact eat and drink raw blood, fat and meat:

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Thought about going carnivore but
(mole person) #44

Oh cool! Good to know. Thanks!

What I’d read was that traditionally the hunters would drink the blood and eat the liver and the women and children more generally got other parts. But that was talking about seal hunting. Maybe in larger animals there is enough blood to go around.

(Michael - When reality fails to meet expectations, the problem is not reality.) #45

It is probably helpful to realize that it’s not ‘salt’ per se that is really relevant. It is the overall balance of sodium, potassium, magnesium, calcium and a few other lesser minerals that’s important. As long as one gets these important nutrients it doesn’t matter whether by eating them or adding them to food. My guess would be that those cultures who ‘abhorred salt’ got the necessary minerals in their food.

(mole person) #46

Oh, I absolutely agree. It may even be the case that in a physiological milieu where you eat nothing but meat and fat from infancy the requirements for salts are different. This is part of my interest. I find it hard to fathom that native carnivores were able to supplement salts at the level many people find necessary on a ketogenic diet.

(Carl Keller) #47

A few friends and family members who know I am LCHF would keep asking me “Are you still doing keto?” with that expectation that I would return to all the things I used to be addicted to (and they still are). Seven months later… they stopped asking. :slight_smile:

(Doug) #48

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Dang… Looks like they brought down the notorious cherry pie-filling beast.

(Carl Keller) #49

I’m picturing all the picky american kids who won’t eat this or won’t eat that, juxtaposed with the kids in this photo. I imagine the average kid around here would faint if they were told this is what’s for dinner.

(Jane- Old Inky Crone) #50

That is so true.
Thanks for the laugh! :joy::rofl:

#51

Being that the traditional Inuit diet was high in sea salt found in fish and raw blood, along with seaweed in some locations - that would make sense. That’s salty food! Unlike in other cultures in different climates and food traditions.

However, the fact that salt extends hydration when on long walkabouts or during drought or migration is also part of ancient histories.

#52

Thank you! I love these photos, especially the second one one with the bloody teacup and smiling child. I first saw that one about 5 years ago, and it really impacted me. You can practically feel the cold breeze and the wide open spaces in it.

(Bacon is a many-splendoured thing) #53

You forgot that it’s also going to kill us, lol!

#STILLDOINGKETO #NOTDEADYET

(mole person) #54

You’re absolutely right. I’ve been thinking about this since @atomicspacebunny shared her pictures too. We tend to think of meat the way we eat it, but when you kill an animal everything is awash in their blood. We drain the blood out for preservation and now we’d be disgusted by a super bloody piece of meat. But that’s how it would have been mostly eaten traditionally and I bet it tasted great. So there would have been far more salt in all their meat then we get from ours.

Love this forum. So thought provoking.

(Anne Marie) #55

My husband follows a bunch of YouTubers for various topics (not diet related). He said that more and more YouTubers he watches who were strict vegans have stopped eating vegan for health reasons.

#56

Blood traditionally being consumed with or in meat depends on where and when we’re talking about. For the Inuit and Maasai, sure. For many other peoples as well around the world. But it’s easy enough to look to the Kosher regulations against consuming blood and how to prepare meat to see at least one instance of avoiding blood going back a few thousand years (and that was one dietary regulation they considered to be technically even pre-Kosher and applying to everyone, unlike a lot of the other Kosher rules). It wasn’t until around the 1400s (as far as I can tell) that Christians were allowed to consume blood, and that wasn’t even all (Catholics lifted the ban, Orthodox, having already separated, did not, and still cannot consume blood as far as I can tell). Halal food also requires draining all the blood from meat.

That may explain some of the widespread cultural differences on the matter. Much of Europe and much of the Near/Middle East (and probably Northern Africa) would have developed for a few thousand years without consuming blood, but in the last 600 years a large chunk of that would have possibly started up, though may still have an ingrained aversion to it in many places/ not have updated their cooking, while new places they went to (since expansion accelerated after that point) would not have been discouraged to the same extent from continuing with their animal blood consumption, even under colonization.

There may be something to all this in general, as blood born pathogens can be pretty severe, but perhaps with the right context can reduce the risks, and perhaps such a context wasn’t/isn’t available everywhere.

#57

People cannot survive on an all meat diet. :sarcasm:

I am not fully keto again after pregnancy, but seeing videos like this make me simultaneously dumbfounded and angry. Dumbfounded and angry that I have been lied to my entire life. I am taking some sociology courses right now, and we are discussing how the media can be misleading. And I am dumbfounded that the entire medical profession has taught us that this type of diet is dangerous and not sustainable. But the diet we SHOULD eat is in reality killing us, and I truly believe, not acutely, but killed my parents.

I have feelings. lol.

#58

I am going down a rabbit hole you guys.

https://www.drmcdougall.com/misc/2015nl/apr/eskimos.htm

Of particular interest (sounds more like an argument for keto diet than against it):

“The fat, not the protein, from animal foods provided most of the 3,100 calories required daily for these active people. Plants are the primary source of all carbohydrates, including digestible sugars and non-digestible dietary fibers. Eating raw meat indirectly provided Eskimos with enough carbohydrates in the form of glycogen (found in the muscles and liver of animals) to meet their necessary nutrient requirements and keep them out of a starvation condition called ketosis. Muscle tissue contains almost no calcium, and as a result the daily intake was about 120 mg/day versus the 800 mg and more commonly recommended for good health. Plants (not people) synthesize Vitamin C, yet the Eskimo was able to avoid scurvy with the 30 mg of vitamin C consumed daily found in land and sea animals. Recommendations for vitamin C are 60 mg/day and higher daily. Low levels of sunlight, and preformed vitamin D from fish, met the “sunshine D vitamin” requirement for Eskimo health. By the grace of environmental design, Nature made sure there was just enough nutrition for the Eskimo to survive.”

He then goes on to describe all of the health problems Inuit have. Are these problems really because of what they ate or something else?

(Rebecca Levy) #59

Yes this!
Lower saturated fat is the fact that they can prove with this study. This does not confirm that saturated fat is actually bad though!
Who cares about your “levels?”
Let’s look at actual number of heart attacks and strokes and then tell me it’s better…

(Rebecca Levy) #60

I think the magnesium deficiency has to do with the fact that the minerals in our soil are depleted from modern farming practices