Totally confused-count calories or no? Count fats etc.?

(Carole Sundeen) #1

I have no idea whether I’m supposed to be counting calories as well as fat grams and protein grams or not. This is only my second day it feels like if I get enough fat in that it’s going to be way more calories than I would ordinarily eat. I can’t seem to find an answer to this hoping some of you out there can help me. Thank you.
I have no idea whether I’m supposed to be counting calories as well as fat grams and protein grams or not. This is only my second day it feels like if I get enough fat in that it’s going to be way more calories then I would ordinarily eat. I can’t seem to find an answer to this hoping some of you out there can help me. Thank you.
SeeEss

(LeeAnn Brooks) #2

Typical advice is to not pay attention to calories, especially during the adaptation phase. You should eat to satiety.
However if you are tracking your macros, which I would recommend until you get used to what less than 20g carbs looks like and how to get close to a 75% fat/20% protein/5% carb ratio, then you will also be tracking calories. Just don’t get hung up on them. Don’t try to follow a calorie in vs calorie out, deficit eating diet. That’s not how Keto works.
I went from a low fat diet eating 1200 calories average to Keto eating about 1600 calories average and I’ve lost weight where I was stalled on LF. And I’m 5’2” 132 pounds, so larger people would need more calories.

If you under eating you will slow your metabolism and hinder weight loss.

Hope this helps clear up some confusion.

#3

In the long run, calories are still important. But, early on, don’t worry about calories. If you’re hungry, eat something with fat and protein, but few or no carbs.

The biggest advantage Keto has for me is that I’m not hungry all the time. So I naturally eat fewer calories. The only time I’ve lost weight on low-fat diets is while I was taking appetite suppressants (ones that are now banned by the FDA). And I still didn’t last longer than 6 months before giving in to binges.

I’ve been on lazy Keto for 3 years and reduced calorie Keto for 16 months. I don’t feel deprived all the time. But I needed to count calories to lose weight because I like too many high fat (and thus high calorie) foods – bacon, sausage, cheese, butter. I have over 5 decades of bad eating habits and my portion sizing is terribly skewed. I can easily eat almost any quantity of those put in front of me. But not because I need it. Just because it’s there.

So, for me at least, Keto is not a “all-you-can-eat” fat and protein buffet.

(Danielle) #4

I’ve been keto since March, and I’ve been using the Carb Manager app to count fat, protein, carbs, and calories.

What I’ve found is that tracking the carbs is most important, but because I was eating more protein and fat, I actually ended up eating fewer calories. Why? Because overall, I was eating LESS. Less snacking between meals, and no feeling famished, leading me to binge.

Start by tracking carbs. That’s what’s most important for attaining ketosis and fat adaptation. I think you’ll be surprised by the calories you end up eating.

(Ron) #5

@Anniegirl9 meant 75%fat / 20% protein / 5% carbs. @SeeEss don’t get confused.
You want to keep your carbs below 20 grams (this isn’t an amount to reach but a maximum limit). This is important.
Protein has a little wiggle room and eat fat til your full. Don’t restrict calories until after your adapted or you will hinder the process.
Ask any questions, we will help.:ok_hand:

(LeeAnn Brooks) #6

Good catch. Just edited.

(Ron) #7

@Anniegirl9
Sorry meant to direct that to OP.:+1:

(LeeAnn Brooks) #8

No problem. Glad you caught my error.

(Chris W) #9

No we don’t normally like calories to be counted in the conventional sense, its good to know for your overall intake but the macros are more important targets. The biggest rule of thumb is to realize the macros are a guide, and the carb macro is not one you try and hit but avoid. If you keep your carbs under 20g for the first couple weeks without quesion you will be in ketosis from there the macros represent proper intake levels. You will loose weight on your maintain levels. If you were a dieter before this WOE(way of eating) things will seem strange. We don’t recommend cutting your intake below maintain until at least a couple months in but you will loose weight in the meantime.

Just a reminder for everyone responding, all new people who join need likes don’t forget to hit the like button.

(Carole Sundeen) #10

I can understand keeping my carbs at 20 g or less. What I don’t understand is how much fat I should be eating. I’m also struggling with ways to get fat after so many years of thinking fat is the enemy. Protein is easy, or relatively so, but that’s really got me stumped I don’t know what to do.

(You've tried everything else; why not try bacon?) #11

It’s a reasonble question. So here’s a simplified explanation of the underlying biology, to help you understand.

There are three macronutrients: fatty acids, protein, and carbohydrate. Carbohydrate stimulates insulin production, and insulin is the hormone that causes fat to be stored in the fat cells (adipose tissue). At the level of carbohydrate consumption recommended by the U.S. government, most people’s bodies produce insulin at a very high rate, forcing most ot the carbohydrate to be stored as fatty acids in the adipose tissue. To mobilize excess stored fat for metabolism, therefore, we have to find some way of lowering our insulin level. The good news, however, is that the body’s daily requirement for carbohydrate is 0 (zero) grams.

Protein stimulates insulin production, but at about half the rate of carbohydrate. Since we absolutely require protein in our diet every day, we need to eat enough protein to avoid malnutrition while avoiding eating too much (for one thing, that way lies ammonia toxicity). For most people, a good range to eat is 0.8 to 1.0 grams of protein per kilogram of lean body mass each day.

Fat hardly stimulates insulin production at all, so to give our bodies the calories they need, it’s the only really safe macronutrient to eat. The reason we say “eat fat to satiety” is that doing so allows the body to tell us how much it needs; for most people, a few weeks of eating a well-formulated ketogenic diet is enough to restore satiety signaling, a sensation by which we lose interest in eating for a while. So there is no need to count calories, because the body decides what it needs, and all we have to do is eat fat until we stop being hungry. For most people entering ketosis, eating fat to satiety leads them to spontaneously limit their calories to around 1500 or so a day. But there are verified records of study participants eating far more than this while still losing excess fat, so don’t worry about how much you’re eating. When given an abundance of calories the body ramps up the basal metabolic rate and even finds ways of wasting calories, whereas limiting calories runs the risk of giving the body the impression there’s a famine on, and it needs to conserve energy at all costs.

Hope this helps.

7+ weeks and im not making progress
Calorie For Calorie, Fat Restriction Is Better For Weight Loss
Discouraged but don’t want to quit
Meeting fat goal?
(Carole Sundeen) #12

Thank you all!!

#13

GOOD GRIEF!

Paul, did you just pull this out of your head?!?! It is SOOOOOOO good, I am asking permission to quote this on another forum to which I am registered. (I just
want to do proper attribution.)

I can verify the info is correct, but the clarity of your post is exceptional.

As to the general topic, I went whole hog (pun intended) on Dec 29th of 2016 and decided to log calories in ADDITION to just regular KETO macros. My target was 1500 to 1700 and I was successful, losing 140# in just 11 months. Lots of I.F.-ing and E.F.-ing and many many good KETO days, has restored my life, quite literally.

So MY advice is linked to my own experience IN PARTICULAR, so be aware of that. YMMV.

If your “Gas Gauge” is sorta broken, and doesn’t ever register FULL (like mine) until 30 minutes after you’ve eaten, don’t be afraid to log calories. Just sayin’.

It worked for me quite nicely, and certainly won’t hurt. Is it really necessary? Probably not…

That was all for free, and is probably worth exactly what it costs you.

Paul, you can PM me if you’d rather.

(karen) #14

Just wanted to say, I went with “easy keto” - 20 grams of carb or less, protein macro matched to my size, and fat to satiety, no other counting. I had problems with satiety signals in the beginning, and I didn’t want to count calories. What helped was forcing myself to leave some food on my plate for about 15 minutes when I thought I was still hungry to give my brain a chance to catch up, and then eating it (and more) if I still wanted it. Within a few weeks this seems to have really resolved itself, my body tells me when it’s full quite quickly and I just sort of … lose interest.

(Carole Sundeen) #15

So it seems what I’m seeing is that in the beginning the most important factor is keeping the carbs to 20 mg or less. And then secondarily doing your best to keep your fat says hi as possible and your proteins as well. Thank you for your input I really appreciate it. I don’t see much mentioned about drinking water but I’m drinking as much as I can which is about between 80 and 100 ounces a day.

(Ron) #16

Try to keep your protein moderate. High protein will hinder adaption and/or stall weight loss in some people.

(Carole Sundeen) #17

Thank you! What I really meant to say was, where my protein and fats are concerned, to eat as much as I can up to my macro limits. I have read that protein can really undermine the efforts.

(karen) #18

Don’t go too high with the protein - a rule of thumb is .6-1 gram for each pound of lean body weight.

Definitely Yes Yes Yes on the water. You will also need more salt, don’t be afraid to add plenty of salt to things or even eat some separately. YOu might want to check out a recipe for “keto aid” which is the keto equivalent of gatorade, to keep your electrolytes (various salts and minerals) balanced.

Other than that, yes, you got this!

(Lee Engelbreth) #19

I am new to the keto journey and am using the CarbManager app to track my macros. When setting up my goal macros I chose the keto ratio for Carbs:Protein:Fat of 5:25:70. Using this ratio the app suggests a daily protein amount that is 2.3 grams per kg of my lean body mass- which seems way too high. I am a Cross Fitter and am not trying to lose weight - I am doing keto for the anti-inflammatory and anti-cancer benefits but even as a Cross Fitter that amount of protein seems excessive. Thoughts on max protein to avoid ammonia toxicity?

(LeeAnn Brooks) #20

It’s because the overall calories are set too low.

Don’t get hung up on calories. Set to maintenance and see what happens to the protein grams.