The Science Behind Dairy Preventing Weight Loss

(Kel Ta) #61

I’ve heard before that dairy and especially conventional grained based dairy May have trace amounts of hormone and antibiotics can cause weight gain and that even organic milk and dairy products contain some hormone (not sure which one) anyone know if this is true?

(Sascha Heid) #62

Why do we even need a theory for this? Imho it is very obvious.
Milk is the most anabolic food in nature. It is designed for maximum growth of the offspring. It does not do this for fun but for survival, which is kinda important. After millions of years of evolution - meaning failure leading to death every time - nobody designs this stuff better then nature and nature is ruthless.
Additionally our dairy products are usually made from cow’s milk. Now compare the birth of a human baby with the birth of a calf, do you see a difference? A calf has to stand up within seconds and be able to walk within minutes. Dont want to? Ok, you die.
In contrast, what does a human baby do? It lies around drooling for 6 months and then learns to crawl for another year. This is a massive difference, thus cow’s milk is much more potent regarding growth then human milk. If you consume milk you will grow. You can’t put on the brakes and step on the gas at the same time.

(Jamie Hayes) #63

Regardless of the science you can always do an N=1 experiment.

(Kel Ta) #64

An interesting finding " In Japan and the United States, the typical dairy cow is milked for 10 months a year, which is only possible because she is impregnated by artificial insemination while still secreting milk from her previous pregnancy. Milk from pregnant cows contains far higher hormone levels than milk from nonpregnant ones—five times the estrogen during the first two months of pregnancy, according to one study, and a whopping 33 times as much estrogen as the cow gets closer to term." from this article:

(Arlene) #65

If you own a milk cow, as I do, you would understand that cows come in heat during lactation. It doesn’t matter if she is artificially inseminated or in with a bull. She will be bred while she is lactating, and you are at least correct that you stop milking the cow 2 months before calving. All milking animals must give birth in order to give milk. This requires them to be bred. Since humans have been drinking pregnant cows milk forever, I’m not too worried about the fear of extra estrogen in the milk. Keep in mind that many commercial dairy farmers use artificial hormones. Perhaps that is the real danger.

(Kel Ta) #66

if you read the quoted paragraph you will see that they are discussing commercial dairy practices and if you read the article it becomes a little more clear " Sato, her Japanes colleague, took his team to Mongolia, where breast and prostate cancer rates are low. They discovered that whole milk from Japanese Holsteins contains far more estrogen and progesterone (67 percent and 650 percent, respectively) than whole milk from Mongolian cows. If Davaasambuu’s theory is correct, the difference in hormone levels could help explain the difference in cancer rates between the two populations. The reason that milk produced in America and Japan has more sex hormones than Mongolian milk is simple. The free-range cows kept by Mongolian nomads get pregnant naturally and are milked for five or six months after they give birth. In Japan and the United States, the typical dairy cow is milked for 10 months a year."

(Steve Stephenson) #67

Dominic D’Agostino recommends The Cantin Ketogenic Diet: For Cancer, …, with NO dairy!

The Cantin Ketogenic Diet has been a valuable resource for many. Elaine Cantin goes beyond macronutrients and optimizes the diet with specific food selection to avoid potential food allergens that may trigger inflammation, insulin resistance and elevated glucose, which may prevent nutritional ketosis. The efficacy of nutritional therapy will depend on getting blood biomarkers in the “zone of metabolic management”, which may require removing dairy protein. I’ve noticed that people consuming high amounts of dairy protein typically have little or no measurable ketones in urine or blood, even with carbohydrate restriction (​<50g/day). Few ketogenic diet books or websites address this issue. Many of the popular ketogenic diet medical foods consist of milk protein and hydrogenated fats.

Dominic may have missed the point a bit here. Well formulated ketogenic​ diets have moderate protein (~ 1-1.5 g/kg lean body mass), including dairy protein; certainly NOT high amounts of protein, dairy​ or otherwise​. Many authors note that excess protein may be converted to glucose and knock you out of ketosis (which is probably what Dominic saw). OTOH, Cantin is concerned with the hormone IGF-I ​in cow’s milk​ (see below) ​​ which can only be eliminated by not eating any dairy.​


Elaine Cantin’s book is inspiring and it is a great guide for designing a ketogenic diet for optimal health.

The typical KD is based heavily on dairy products, which is a major problem for people with allergies to dairy proteins. Elaine takes careful consideration to eliminate foods associated with allergies, which is a huge help for people seeking a non-dairy approach.

“The t​ypical KD is based heavily on dairy products​” - mostly for the fat, not the protein.​ But there is some protein in any dairy fat, so the allergy problem persists; as does the IGF-I ​hormone problem (see below)​.​​

​p.69, ​The Cantin Ketogenic Diet For Cancer:

I removed red meat and dairy to avoid synthetic bovine growth hormone (rBGH), and I also wanted to avoid IGF-I from the cow’s milk.

​The cow makes and includes IGF-1 in its milk. The only way to get rid of it is to NOT eat dairy.​

But rBGH is given to beef cattle by modern humans to fatten them. Eating only grass fed and finished beef should eliminate rBGH. The traditional diet of the Inuit was mostly caribou meat and fat (sans rBGH) and they had no cancer.

Cantin ate <30 total grams of carbs per day with less than 150 grams of protein+fat, p.58 (she ate chicken). I prefer to use the normal ketogenic goals of <20 grams total carbs, <1 g/kg lean body mass of protein, and fat to satiety.

​To help treat my metastatic prostate cancer I’m now trying to follow a zero carb solely grass fed and finished meat diet with no dairy (I also eat olive oil, avocado oil, coconut oil, and Brain Octane Oil).​ Last month I did a 4 day fast and plan to do at least a 3 day fast every month.

Palm Oil cause cancer?
(Kathy L) #68

Don’t you just want to move to Arizona & get sn appointment with doc Nally??? :heart:

(Sascha Heid) #69

Funny story:
3 weeks ago i started to drink fresh raw milk.
I drank up to a gallon a day.
Other then the milk i also had 5-10 raw eggs and meat (but less because the milk and eggs was quite satisfying). Lots of exercise, cycling, lifting, running. I tracked my calories and according to CICO i should not have gained a lot. But i did, 20lbs in the last 2 weeks.
This is so absurd i cant even be mad about it.
Now i know why raw milk is illegal in some countries :wink:

Time to bring out the superpowers of water fasting.

(Kel Ta) #70

milk has a ton of sugar in the form of lactose… will definitely up your carbs

(Michael Wallace Ellwood) #71

I’m not sure if it’s that high in percentage terms … 4.7g per 100ml whole milk according to one source
(although I’ve also seen it as 5.25g “sugars” with a lower carb value - don’t know what that’s about).

But obviously, if you drink gallons of it, it’s going to mount up. I gave up milk in tea and coffee, and it seemed to make a significant difference. Guess I was getting through more of the stuff than I realised.

(Todd Allen) #72

According to CICO you shouldn’t have gained 20 lbs of fat unless you took in 20 * 3500 kCal more than you burned. But a pound of muscle contains far fewer calories. It’s not just the difference that a gram of protein is 4 cal vs 9 cal for fat. Muscle tissue also contains a higher percentage of water than fat tissue does. So odds are good a significant portion of the 20 lbs you gained was additional muscle and water.

(Kathy L) #73

Any progress? I’ve been stalled for a year! Lost 40 (60more to go-so not near my goal or anything)

(Solomom A) #74

Dairy is far more insulingenic than mere protein. This link: has a brief summary and some Scientific Studies on the issue. If you are fighting cancer or some disease that requires that you keep insulin low, you will want to stay away from dairy or keep it to the barest minimum. It’s been one of the things to look out for if you plateau on your weight loss.


Well i put cheese on most things, (cheese sauces, cheese slices, even just eat a hunk of cheese) and I’ve lost 20 lbs since June 25. However I also IF and workout. I dont think I could survive without my BPC either. I think it depends on the person (n=1). I found I stall/gain when i eat too often tho, but a fast always fixes tht. Im pro dairy bcz of the fat in it so im with those tht say try IF or even a EF, before u just totally nix the dairy.

(momzbusy2012) #76

I have been a little disconnected from this site so sorry for the late reply… I have my thyroid under control now so that has helped. I was down to 169 after a long weekend fast and I’m about 10 pounds above that now. I went on the low carb cruise to Alaska in May and ate carbs and the wheels came off! I’ve been having a hard time getting back into strict keto but I’m trying something different. Since women’s bodies fight for homeostasis like crazy, I’ve decided to get a Dexa scan as a baseline and then put my scales away for a month. I’m going to eat keto and monitor my glucose and blood ketones and see what it does to my body fat/lean muscle composition. I’ve notoriously lost inches while my weight stayed almost the exact number. My theory is my body fighting for homeostasis. I will take losing fat in place of muscle as long as I can see it on the next Dexa scan!

(Kathy L) #77

I was there too! Asked a question on the live keto Talk podcast (about food allergies). KCKO

(Solomom A) #78

Shouldn’t it have been easier staying keto on a low-carb cruise? The organisers have to up their game, I would think.

(Kathy L) #79

There was a group of about 350 low carbers on the cruise. The food was Just regular food with plenty of LC options. She just chose to indulge in carbs. We were not there to police each other, but gain information & support from all the other group members, keto experts & excellent speakers’ presentations. Those speakers presented their info at meetings that were held on our “sailing” days/not while we were in port. It was a great experience! Our dinner companions were all from the LC group - it was so much fun eating with other people on the same journey! No weird looks or explaining to do! But you should have seen our waiter- it took him a while to get the hang of not bringing us the bread basket & instead, more butter!! LOL!

(tulsanurse1) #80

D.d you ever find out if dairy slowed down your loss? I have a feeling its affecting mine?