Testing enhanced fat burn with raw whole ginger root

(Michael - When reality fails to meet expectations, the problem is not reality.) #75

Thanks. I have suggested to others that one way to test informally is just that. The premise is that if indeed ginger root accelerates metabolism then one might indeed experience morning hunger when in the absence of eating ginger root one usually does not.

(Michael - When reality fails to meet expectations, the problem is not reality.) #76

I want to update what I’m currently doing with this, which is not much. However, I began again about a week or 10 days ago to eat raw ginger root in the evenings about an hour before bedtime. Not every night, but most nights.

After the first couple of days I started waking up in the morning feeling hungry! After waking up in hunger, at least my version of it, for about a week I figured I was probably losing weight so I decided to weigh in this morning. 141 pounds. For the past week my BrAce has been trending up as well. For the past couple of days it has not gone below 20ppm and maxed at 45ppm. So again I have informal evidence for the efficacy of ginger root accelerating fat burn.

Not sure when I’ll do a more formal test. I want to continue eating the ginger root, but I don’t want to lose more weight right now. So today I upped my daily calories from 2700 to 2800. I’m keeping my protein at 90 grams per day, so changing the calories necessitated changing my fat:protein macros a little.

(Eric - The patient needs to be patient!) #77

What is BrAce

(Bunny) #78

…Breath Acetone Concentration (BrAce)

Measuring breath acetone for monitoring fat loss: Review

A scathing review by Richard Nikoley:

”…Here’s one of the papers Anderson reviewed (below) showing clearly that one can be fully in ketosis on a high-carbohydrate diet, provided calories are sufficiently restricted. …” …More

Note: important distinction to be made; higher carbohydrate diet vs. junk food?

Following these studies, Kundu et al. performed a confirmative study (full text). BrAce was measured in humans (n = 58) on a 30 day calorie restriction diet 8. Initial body weights were 10‐30% over the ideal weight (a body mass index, BMI, range of 27.5‐32.5 with ideal BMI = 25 kg m−2). The composition of the diet was high carbohydrate, moderate protein, and low fat. Breath samples, collected upon awakening, sampled the first 380ml of exhaled breath after a 5 s breath hold. On average, BrAce increased over the first 8 days and reached a relative stable plateau after day 7. Fat loss (g day−1) increased with the average BrAce after day 7. Fat loss and BrAce were greater for experimental subjects than controls. Maintaining a BrAce= 85 nM (∼2.1 ppm) corresponded to a fat loss of 227 g week−1 (0.5 lbs week−1). [emphasis added] …More

#79

“And…“ just rollin down the street —-laid back “

All you need is a blunt now :rofl:

(Sorry for the late reply!)

(Michael - When reality fails to meet expectations, the problem is not reality.) #80

Thanks. To be clear, Richard Nikoley is not dissing the use of BrAce to measure fat/ketone utilization. He’s attacking the obvious: the misconception that any measured fat/ketone utilization is due to endogenous fat metabolism. Well, duh, some calorie restriction of dietary intake is necessary to burn endogenous fat. Who woulda thunk? As I continually point out Keto is not magic.

I noted way back at the beginning of this topic, my experience is that ginger root enhances fat burn, and endogenous fat burn, only if one restricts calories to some extent. In my case that’s anywhere between 100-200 calories less than my daily target. By the way, although I upped my total daily calorie target yesterday to 2800 and actually ate 2795 (of which 2392 were fat calories), I awoke hungry this morning. BrAce was 25ppm. I think hunger is a marker of endogenous fat burn. It’s your body’s way of telling you you’re running on empty and it’s time to refuel.

For any/all who have not checked out this topic, please do so.

#81

Delete

(Tony Campbell) #82

Bought some root ginger today, so that I can add this to my arsenal of potential fat burning things! It can’t do any harm, and I can easily spare the 1.8g carbs. Even if there is a minuscule fat burn with ginger, all these minuscule things add up! I’m all for trying something different!

(Michael - When reality fails to meet expectations, the problem is not reality.) #83

@Mtb To get things going I recommend the first day eating 15-25 grams of ginger root spread out during the course of the day, with about 5-10 grams an hour before going to bed. Succeeding days you can cut back to 10 grams per day before bed. Let us know what happens! Thanks.

(Libby) #84

I bought this: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01CTIYU60/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o04_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

It’s glass and stainless steel cold brew thing but instead of coffee I use some grated ginger (easier to grate if frozen.) I’ve got ginger water at my fingertips now. Makes a nice night cap and I find I enjoy it MORE without alcohol to cut it.

I had a couple juice glasses full during a non eating day the other day, stomach handled it fine.

(Tony Campbell) #85

Tomorrow will be first weigh in. When I weighed this morning, I had not lost from the day before. On the previous three days, I had lost 0.4kg per day. I’ll post daily weight loss/gain. I’m really interested to see if there is a difference using ginger. I hope some of the other forum members report back with results using some of the different methods that were talked about. I’m especially interested in the ginger capsules if they have the same result.

(Hyperbole- best thing in the universe!) #86

Interesting. That looks like a regular ol’ teapot, but with a fancy shape. How do you make your ginger juice? How much ginger? Do you cold brew it?

(Tony Campbell) #87

So, chewed and swallowed 10g of raw ginger last night about 1.5hrs before bed. This morning, weighed myself to find I’d gone from 96.3kg to 97.3kg. a gain of exactly one kg or 2.2lbs. to be fair, I’m not surprised. Yesterday was a lot of exercise.
7 mile fast walk
Heavy chest and arms at gym
30mins cardio on elliptical machine
30 mins cycle spin class HIIT
So yes, my poor ragged muscles will be retaining extra fluid today.
Next results tomorrow.

(Libby) #88

It is more like a beaker :grinning: It has fancy flexible gaskets to keep all the air in/out. Yeah, it’s fancy but in the end I guess it is a jar with a mesh strainer. Lol.

I just took some ginger out of my freezer stash (I got a couple of kilos of young locally grown ginger a while ago) grated it up and then filled the container with water. I filled the stainless steel strainer part about 3/4 with ginger but by the time I ran water over it it squished down to, like, a third. Then I put it in the refrigerator overnight. The resulting ginger water is nicely gingery/pale yellow but doesn’t … hurt. A half cup of loosely packed ginger to a liter of water?

I usually make ginger tincture, which is grated ginger in a jar covered with vodka and left for several months. That also is good.

To add feebly to the original purpose of this thread, I have lost 4 pounds in the last week, which COINCIDES with drinking ginger water but also with my second 48 hour fast so that confounds it.

(Hyperbole- best thing in the universe!) #89

Thanks, I’ll have to give that a try!

Also good to know ginger freezes well. My last batch sprouted because I forgot about it.

(Libby) #90

It grates really well when frozen, almost to dust size sometimes. I was doing that and throwing it into a cup of boiling water for tea this last winter.

(David Cooke) #91

I just chop the roots up and scatter them over my finished plate of food, same as I do with garlic. And chili. Seems perfectly digestible to me.

(Hyperbole- best thing in the universe!) #92

Ooooo! I does!

(Michael - When reality fails to meet expectations, the problem is not reality.) #93
Date Weight Fat Lean Fat% (Ref) Fat% (Omron) Fat% (Navy) Fat% (Levl)
Jun 27 141 20 121 14.2 12.8 14.0 15.0
July 06 144 17 127 11.8 13.0 12.0 12.0
July 13 144 17 127 11.8 12.5 12.0 12.0
July 19 144 22 122 15.3 11.3 15.0 14.0
July 26 143 20 123 13.9 13.3 14.0 15.0
Aug 02 144 22 122 15.3 12.1 15.0 14.0
Aug 09 145 22 123 15.2 11.5 15.0 14.0
Aug 16 144 19 125 13.2 11.8 13.0 13.0
Aug 23 144 23 121 16.0 13.2 16.0 16.0
Aug 30 144 22 122 15.3 15.3 15.0 15.0

As noted above, I upped my daily calories from 2700 to 2800 on June26. I had been eating about 10-15 grams of ginger root each evening for the past several days and feeling hungry each morning. I do not want to lose weight, so I upped my calories to prevent it.

As you can see from the above weigh-in data, in the 9 days since June 27 I gained net 3 pounds, but lost 3 pounds of fat mass. Or so the Navy online calculator tells me. I expected to gain some weight, but the fat loss was unexpected.

Relevant. This past week I have been sick with a chest cold. To try to beat it, on Wednesday I ate about 35-40 grams of ginger root during the course of the day. Doing so did not bump me out of ketosis, but it did push my carbs up to about 30 net grams for the day. I have eaten none since then (Jul03-06).

Notes

  1. 'Ref' fat% is fat weight divided by total weight
  2. 'Omron' fat% is derived from my Omron HBF306 impedence device
  3. 'Navy' fat% is the result of the Navy online calculator
  4. 'Levl' fat% is the result of the Levl online calculator
  • Jul13: still sick, starting Jul07 ate ginger root daily (15 grams), still hitting my daily calorie target of 2800, morning hunger has disappeared; I missed two work days this past week (Wed & Thu), so level of activity has dropped
  • Jul19: still sick, but getting better finally; cough won't let go. Still eating ginger root daily (15 grams), still hitting my daily calorie target of 2800, although I undershot by 200 calories one day. Does not seem to have mattered. 5 days of work in a row, so level of activity has increased nearly to normal. Had off today, starting tomorrow 4 days in a row.
  • Jul26: last ginger root last night for a while. If my premise is correct, and I hit my 2800 calories daily for the next week, I should start to gain some weight.
  • Aug02: I hit my 2800 calories (or close enough) daily for the past week, except for a couple days. I'm back to the same numbers I had Jul 19 except for the Omron fat% which is slightly different, but still up. Significantly, fat% went up a bit except for the Levl calculation, which I think is the least accurate of the three.
  • Aug09: The Omron fat% is much lower than both the Navy and Levl numbers. Maybe there's less fat in my arms. I've hit my 2800 daily target, or close to it, every day of the past week. I've gained a pound, apparently mostly lean mass.
  • Aug16: The Omron fat% continues lower than both the Navy and Levl numbers. I've discovered that the Levl calculator allows fractional numbers, which is good to know. The Navy calculator rounds up/down to the nearest whole number. I've hit my 2800 daily target, or close to it, every day of the past week except for a couple. I've lost a pound, apparently mostly fat mass. The only thing I've done differently from previous weeks has been to repair my bicycle and ride a couple of times.
  • Aug23: The Omron measures impedence in my arms and upper body, mostly through the shoulders I presume. The Navy and Levl online calculators include both waist and neck measurements. The big change this week from last was that my waist measurement increased from 31+ inches to 33 inches. I managed to hit my calorie target every day and a couple days a bit more. So it looks like I added some visceral fat even though my total weight did not change.
Can we please stop repeating the “You have to eat at a deficit to lose weight on KETO” lie?
Can we please stop repeating the “You have to eat at a deficit to lose weight on KETO” lie?
What if "Eating to Satiety" ain't enough to reach prudent caloric targets?
#94

I followed through to the Nikoley article and his references. (some of his references were about MCTs and fasting or severe calorie restriction)

Let me summarize:

BrAce is measuring ketones produced from fat coming out of fat cells unless you are using MCT-rich fats (or in some cases SCFA which produce a small amount of ketones in the gut). Whether there is a net gain or loss from those cells is a different matter and is where energy balance comes into play.

I’ll add on by describing what the limiting steps are - because the more I write this stuff down, the more I can keep it sorted in my head. :crazy_face:

Long chain dietary fat must first be cycled through adipose before going to the liver as FFA. FFA leaving fat cells depends primarily on the health of the fat cell - its ability to respond to insulin - and insulin levels acting on the GLUT4 transporter. Lower insulin = more fat released. Once FFA gets to the liver via the bloodstream, some of it is used and the remainder is re-esterified and exported as cholesterol in VLDL. Of the fraction that makes it to be metabolized, it must first be able to cross into the liver mitochondria. That step is rate limited by carnitine (CPT1), which in turn is regulated by other factors in accordance with fed/fasted status.

Now we’ve made it into the liver mitochondria where beta oxidation happens. (yay!) Whether or not ketones are produced is determined by whether or not oxaloacetate (OAA) is depleted thus halting the Krebs Cycle which produces glucose as an end product. This is accomplished by overwhelming the available amount of OAA with the acetyl-CoA produced by the cleaving of the influx of FFA into smaller chunks, producing Acac. After that, the relative amount of Bhb or Acac produced is determined by the NAD+/NADH ratio.

So, other than ginger potentially increasing the amount of FFA released from fat cells, thus overwhelming OAA, I wonder which other mechanisms in may involve?