So confused after 4 days


(Bob M) #81

Other than keeping carbs low, I don’t think macros are useful. Just eat until you’re full, mainly meats with fat on them. I prefer high protein most times, but you might not. I also have some dairy, depending, usually cheese, though sour cream is also good.

As for vegetables, this might come as a shock, but you don’t need to eat them. If you want to eat them, broccoli, asparagus, little cabbages (can’t remember the name now), some cauliflower, spinach, etc. are all good.


(Bacon is a many-splendoured thing) #82

This is not really true; the situation is more nuanced than that. Gluconeogenesis in the liver (the process of making glucose from amino acids, i.e., protein) is highly regulated, because an excess of glucose in the bloodstream causes damage. As serum glucose rises, it triggers a rise in serum insulin, and the insulin shuts off gluconeogenesis, in an elegant feedback loop. This is in a ketogenic environment, of course, since a glucolytic environment shuts off gluconeogenesis altogether, because the high intake of exogenous glucose (in the form of carbohydrate) both renders gluconeogenesis unnecessary and makes it necessary to sop up the excess serum glucose in musle glycolysis and lipogenesis in liver and adipose.


(Bacon is a many-splendoured thing) #83

When they say “more fat than protein,” what they mean is “more fat calories than protein calories.” Remember that, because of their respective calorie counts, an equal amount of protein and fat by weight is 31% protein and 69% fat by calorie count. Macro percentages are always calculated on the basis of percentage of total calories.

Bear in mind, also, that most sources of protein are about 25% protein by weight, meaning that an ounce of steak, for example, will contain 7 grams’ (or 28 calories’) worth of protein.

It is fairly simple to eat the right amount of protein. You will probably stop wanting more, once you have eaten the right amount. If you fill in your remaining caloric intake in the form of fat, you will be completely satisfied.

ETA:

You have probably set the app to give you a caloric deficit. See what you get when you set it to “maintenance.” You may find those macros easier to adhere to.

Alternatively, you could just eat as little carbohydrate as possible (or even none at all; dietary carbohydrate is totally unnecessary) and eat protein and fat to satiety. We recommend keeping the carbohydrate under 20 g/day, because many people who come to these forums are highly insulin-resistant and need to keep their carbohydrate that low (and sometimes even lower) merely to get into ketosis. Your personal carbohydrate threshold may be higher than that.

Remember that the goal of this way of eating is (1) to keep insulin low enough to free up excess stored fat to be metabolised away, and (2) to convert the body from routinely metabolising glucose to routinely metabolising fatty acids. The recommendation to eat as little carbohydrate as possible is in aid of reaching these goals. For two million years, the human race basically lived in ketosis. I figure that if our ancestors, those ignorant savages, could manage it without even knowing what a calorie is and with a total lack of apps to guide them, we ought to be able to manage, too.


(shelley) #84

I do want to eat vegetables, because other than Protein, not sure what else will fill me.
However, must vegetables have carbs, so I don`t want those.


(Bacon is a many-splendoured thing) #85

Fat is extremely satisfying to eat. And since it has almost no effect on your insulin secretion, it is a very safe source of calories. It also contains more than twice the calories per gram than carbohydrate or protein, so it takes far less of it to satisfy us.

There are plenty of resources on these forums to help you understand how a well-formulated ketogenic diet works. Enter “Keto is this easy” in the forum search bar, for an introductory thread that will explain everything. Searching on “FAQ” will take you to another thread that will also explain things in terms easy to understand.


#86

That’s cool. Most days I do 18/6 and start eating around 2 PM, just fits my schedule better.

My point was that the traditional idea that you have to eat when you wake up or you will starve and not be able to function is BS.


(Ian) #87

Hi Shelley,

My experience has mirrored everyone else’s advice here. I did not count macros or calories and never worried about how much protein or fat I was eating. When I started, I simply eliminated sugar wherever possible, avoided processed foods (except cheeses and meat as long as they were low carb) and tried as best as possible to keep my net carbs under 20-30 g. As long as I am generally under 30 g a day of carbs, I eat anything until I no longer feel hungry.

I hardly bothered counting carbs from vegetables such as salads, cauliflower, broccoli or cabbage because their fiber content is relatively high, which reduces the net carbs.

This is a good web site to compare carbs in relative amounts in various foods:

As for snacks, I like pecans, peanuts, pork rinds, cheese sticks, cherry tomatoes, low carb beef jerky, low carb pepperoni sticks.

HTH


(shelley) #88

Okay this sounds more doable, because I really started driving myself nuts.
Everything I am picking up has either too much of one or another, and I got to the point where I am just grabbing anything that will fit into my macros.

If I don`t have too worry about the vegetables (above ground), this would be helpful.

One problem that I keep seeing is, a lot of pork related items, but I don`t eat pork, and would love some alternatives.

If anyone can offer up some recipes that are high fat and low carb (without a lot of prep time), I`d love to hear them (NO pork please).


(Scott) #89

It is not complicated. Limit carbs and increase fat to satiety. Now watch what the scale does over the course of several weeks. If the scale doesn’t respond you may need to tweak something. I limit carbs but guess I get between 20g and 35g. I than add about 15 g of wine to that. I don’t measure or weigh anything other than my weight.


(Michael - When reality fails to meet expectations, the problem is not reality.) #90

Bok choy. Less than 3 grams of carbs per 100 grams. Nutritionally dense in micros. In terms of bang for the carb it’s the best Keto veggie, leaf like lettuce and stem like celery!


(squirrel-kissing paper tamer) #91

Literally all of the other animals: beef, chicken, fish, seafood, duck, lamb, turkey, eggs, organ meat, bison, buffalo, venison, etc.


#92

Here’s an example from my food tracker:

Breakfast (only happens IF I am hungry. If not, I just have coffee.)
2 Eggs (fried or scrambled in butter) with cheese
Coffee with butter/heavy cream/ coconut oil

Lunch
Double patty burger with two slices of cheese, a slice of tomato, spicy ranch dressing or spicy mayo
Side of veggies (asparagus, basic side salad, celery with cream cheese)

Dinner
10 chicken wings with blue cheese
Raw cauliflower also dipped in the blue cheese

This day’s menu had:
Carbs: 18g
Fiber: 6g
Protein: 86g
Fat: 121g


#93

Also…
You need to spend some time looking at photos of what other people eat to get ideas. Check out the Food section here on the boards. It’s great inspiration! Especially this:
What did you Keto today?

Everything doesn’t work for everyone. I can eat dairy and be fine. Some can have sweeteners and not have issues. It’s something you need to figure out over time.

I think you’re wanting help with pork-free ideas so off the top of my head…

  • Shrimp with creamy broccoli slaw
  • Steak and eggs
  • Chicken with skin
  • Salmon and asparagus
  • Plate of pepperoni, pickles, cheeses, olives
  • Meatballs with creamy cheese sauce
  • Pot roast with Brussels sprouts
  • Steak and more steak (yum!)
  • Seafood and broccoli baked in foil packet with butter and herbs/spices
  • Greek meze platter: romaine, feta, Greek meatballs, olives, roasted cherry peppers, pepperoncini

(BuckRimfire) #94

Brussels sprouts. These are great if you like them at all. Cut in half, mix with salt, cumin and Aleppo chili powder or similar to taste, sauté cut side down in LOTS of butter until lightly browned. It’s pretty quick and easy, and they can soak up a huge amount of butter to help you get satiating fat. Also they keep pretty well in the fridge so you don’t have to buy them every day or have them go bad if you wait a few days to use them

Don’t over cook (to me, overdone cabbage always tastes like garbage).


(shelley) #95

Thanks to everyone who replied, you have all been so helpful and I appreciate your listening to my whining.

Keep your fingers crossed that it all pays off (I am), I really do want to succeed!


(shelley) #96

A few more questions:

  1. Yesterday I went to the supermarket, just browsing for things that make sense for me. I found two dips: Spinach and red pepper, both were low in carbs, and I am wondering are these okay on Keto?

  2. If I am looking for a tide over item, are the Turkey Pepperettes okay to grab?

Thanks


#97

Sounds OK. As always, the bottom line is net carbs. But most dips are primarily sour cream, which has very few carbs. Both spinach and bell peppers are keto-friendly. But manufacturers can add things that pile on the carbs, which is why net carbs is the absolute measure.

I was heartbroken when I found out artificial crab was full of added carbs. :frowning:


(shelley) #98

Yes I was disappointed about the crab as well.


(BuckRimfire) #99

You’re not going to get anywhere with keto if you fear good fat. As was already mentioned, Ancel Keys and a few other researchers convinced themselves that saturated fat leads to heart disease (the “diet-heart hypothesis”), and then badly cherry-picked the data to try to make the case using epidemiology, which is the weakest form of evidence. When they tried to do actual experiments on the diet, this was never shown to be true!

Note that “hypothesis” technically means “an idea that I need to devise experiments to test.” The best test is always to try to prove yourself wrong, but it’s the test people often don’t want to do.

Keys and others did an experiment in Minnesota (with a captive test group in mental hospitals) in which saturated fat was replaced by unsaturated fat, and not only was there little effect on heart disease, but cancer went UP. They waited many years to actually publish these data! So, they self-suppressed results that didn’t fit their pet hypothesis, rather than consider that the hypothesis might be wrong. BAD SCIENCE.

Similar results have come out of other studies: little or no effect on heart disease, increase in TOTAL MORTALITY on low-fat [edited: I mis-typed “low-carb” here earlier] or polyunsaturated fat (seed oils) due to increased cancer, stroke, etc. I don’t care if I die of heart disease, I care if I DIE full-stop, so only total mortality is interesting (unless dying later is actually worse due to being incapacitated for longer and bad quality of life, but that’s probably not the case).

But, the McGovern diet committee in the Senate in 1977, guided basically by one lawyer and one medical researcher who was a proponent of the saturated fat hypothesis, accepted this story hook, line and sinker. They used the old idea “we have to DO SOMETHING!!!1!!” to justify the fact that they were trying to use science that did not actually have a clear consensus solution to the problem of heart disease (and thus what they were “doing” might be worse than doing nothing), so this muddled science became official US policy, and thus the “conventional wisdom” for pretty much the entire world. (Critically, this all occurred between the execution of the Minnesota experiment and its much-delayed publication.)

There are several ways you can convince yourself of this:

  1. Read the book Lies My Doctor Told Me by Ken Berry MD, which contains the abridged version.

  2. Read either Good Calories, Bad Calories by Gary Taubes, or The Big Fat Surprise by Nina Teicholz, which is a pretty similar book (plus some more specific criticism of the Mediterranean Diet hype) that came out 6 or 8 years later. GCBC is about 450 pages plus over 50 pages of references, and TBFS is almost as long. (I wish I had databases for the references of both books and could cross index them to see how similar the reference lists are; I’ll bet they’re > 80% similar). So these are a chore to read, but they really contain a damning indictment of the weakness of the “butter causes heart disease and red meat causes cancer” story.

  3. Trust that many people here have read all these books and are not lying to you! Numbers 1 and 2 are “knowledge” and this method is only “belief,” but if it works for you, it will save a lot of time. :wink:


(mole person) #100

I agree with everything in the above post except that The Big Fat Surprise was a chore to read. To me it reads like a well sourced, real world, who-done-it. I relished that read and plan to reread it soon.