So confused after 4 days

(BuckRimfire) #101

I enjoyed reading both books, but they are LONG. I found the first 150 pages of GCBC to be a real page-turner, but my enthusiasm declined in the second half just due to fatigue.

(BuckRimfire) #102

If you read the Amazon 1-star reviews for GCBC, almost all of them are “this book is too long. I just want a diet to follow.” These are scholarly tomes, not diet books!

(mole person) #103

Oh, agreed. If people want good diet books about keto I don’t think anything beats Phinney’s The Art and Science of Low Carbohydrate Living and A New Atkins for a New You.

(BuckRimfire) #104

Agreed. I bought both of those! “New Atkins” was one of the first things I read, and I recommend it to people as the easiest place to start.

The one thing that confuses me is that in New Atkins, Westman et al recommend increasing carb levels in the maintenance phase (up to, what, about 80 grams? I forget) but in his more recent YouTube talks, Westman always repeats “20 grams total, not net, carbs.” Maybe that’s just to avoid misleading people who are just getting into it, since stricter is probably better to insure that the diet will work, but I wonder if he didn’t really want to say that more was OK, but the Atkins plan wanted to include that?

#105

Dr. Zoe Harcombe addresses some calorie and fat myths in this video:

#106

56 g is very little. I’m not sure where that number came from, but I wouldn’t even consider that enough to be a bare minimum. I wouldn’t worry about going way over this. Some people like to restrict their protein later on, but right now, protein is your friend. Hungry? Eat some protein. Carb craving? Eat some protein.

I think the morning shake is fine with 31g of protein. Two more meals with that much protein and you’ll be doing great! For some reason, lots of people on these forums are anti-shake. You don’t necessarily need them, but if you like them, it makes your life easy, and it makes it easier to stay on plan, great. I think a homemade shake makes a great breakfast, and I think the ones I make are quite yummy. A canned shake works well for some people, too, although they aren’t to my taste. I also worry about how much alternative sweetener there is in them.

I don’t think that fasting is necessary at all for people just starting out. I wouldn’t recommend it, personally. Whether you fast or not, you’re going to go through a period of carb withdrawal and have several days of cravings for sugary and starchy foods. You can either go through this while fasting or you can go through it and feed your body something else, which I think it easier.

I’m not clear at all why you think you need to restrict your protein so much. If you check out a few calculators, like the one @OgreZed linked to, you’ll see that the protein you’re trying to restrict to is a bare minimum.

The key there might be the word “excess.” Also, way up-thread @amwassil linked to an excellent explanation about protein and gluconeogenesis that dispels a lot of the myths around protein and ketosis. Hopefully, you took some time to read that. If not, I suggest you do that now. You might also be interested in this presentation by Dr. Donald Layman on what is sufficient protein and what’s really “excess.”

Fat is quite good for you. If you’re going to restrict carbs to 20g or less and eat an adequate amount of protein, you need to eat something else to fill out your energy requirements for the day and fill you up. That’s fat. If you don’t want to eat fat, you need to eat more protein or more carbs. If you don’t want to eat protein, you need to eat more fat and carbs. If you don’t want to eat carbs, you need to eat more fat and protein. If you don’t want to eat protein AND carbs, you need to eat fat.

A typical quick meal for me is a piece of meat (ribeye, hamburger, chicken thighs, salmon, etc.) either sautĂ©ed, baked in high heat, or cooked under the broiler. For a thick ribeye, I eat an empty cast iron pan under the broiler heat for about 8–10 minutes, then toss the steak in (no oil in the pan), and cook it for about 7 minutes. While that’s going, I might microwave some frozen veggies like broccoli, cauliflower, mixed veg, etc. When those are done, I add some butter to them or maybe I’ll serve them with a good amount of ranch or blue cheese dressing. That’s dinner.

(You've tried everything else; why not try bacon?) #107

I believe that’s because it was Dr. Atkins’ own practice, and they were updating his program. Dr. Westman is quite adamant about having his patients stay under 20 total grams of carbohydrate a day. Dr. Phinney tells the Virta patients to eat under 30 total grams, so that their net will be under 20.

(Scott) #108

Not saying this in a mean way but you need to stop stressing about protein. Get your protein naturally by eating fatty meats and not via protein shakes.

Moderate Protein
Low carbs <20g
All the healthy fat you need to feel full

If you think you need to snack you are not including enough fat in your meals. IMO

(mole person) #109

I do think about protein as I’ve found too much takes me out of ketosis. Even 80 grams will. Your protein macro is similar to mine though and I find that I’m fine up to about 75 grams.

Your problem is here:

And here:

What @Rclause said is correct.

Try to eat meats that are very high in fat. I don’t even bother anymore with cuts that aren’t at least as many fat grams as protein grams. By eating turkey you are forcing yourself to make up the fat calories that you need with oils and butter and that’s not as satiating as getting the fat with the protein. Also, it just makes some of us queasy to have so much pure fat. My husband will actually get physically very sick from too much.

(BuckRimfire) #110

This! The bulk of my dinner last night was 20% fat ground beef. I’d have used 25% fat, but that’s not available at the grocery store I went to on the way home.

Also, at least for the first couple of weeks, calculate your macros using a calculator set to “weight maintenance,” not “calorie deficit.” No need to try for weight loss while you’re still adjusting to not getting any carbs. Be patient! Let yourself feel as good as possible and not hungry, then start cutting your fat consumption later as you feel comfortable.

(BuckRimfire) #111

It looks like they contain dextrose, maltodextrin and sucrose (all carbs) so not ideal, but the amount is small so maybe eating a couple of them wouldn’t be a complete disaster. I’d say don’t eat them every day, but you could use them in an emergency.

Some olives would be a better choice, generally. Salt and fat!

(Wendy) #112

That why Gary wrote the shorter version of Good calories Bad
 Called Why We Get Fat (and What to Do About it).
I’ve read all of those books ^and loved them all!

(mole person) #113

I loved Why We Get Fat. It was my gateway book into this whole incredible journey.

(shelley) #114

How about Shwarma, is it Keto friendly?

(Polly) #115

Not if you eat it in a pitta bread with fries and sweetened pickles.

(shelley) #116

No of course, I just meant is Shwarma meat Keto friendly? I think it is high in fat?

(shelley) #117

what about Hummos? Falafel?

#118

I’d encourage you to start looking up the ingredients of these items. Understanding how to do that is a very helpful tool for staying on track. Simply Googling “hummus nutrient information” or “falafel nutrient information” will get you an answer. Or “chickpeas nutrient information.”

Up thread I believe you were also referred to Dr. Westman’s “Page 4” which includes a list of foods to eat and not eat. It’s very helpful to follow something like this in the beginning and it will give you the information you need about whether or not you should be eating beans and other legumes (the short answer: No).

(BuckRimfire) #119

I don’t know about shwarma, since I don’t know how it’s made. Do they sneak in flour or sugar as binders or flavors? That would be a problem. The first nutritional info I looked up online said 25 g of carbs and 1 g of sugar, so it sounds like that means there is a prohibitive amount of some kind of starch in it.

Hummus and falafel are mostly garbanzo beans. Good for some diet plans (better than a donut, anyway) but way too much carb for keto.

#120

I think you said “chore” when you meant “joy”? :wink: