Rockin' October


#101

Welcome Donna!

This is a great forum, and I’m happy to hear about your success. Also, the blood work is always interesting to follow. That info from Damon was certainly good to know…someday, I’ll have bloodwork done as well. I just never had it done prior to embarking on keto and IF/EF so there won’t be any “Wow” factor to see, no comparisons to point out.

Best wishes and happy you’re here :smiley:


#102

Glad you found us too! I am a huge Dr. Fung fan. I have done a lot of fasting in recent months, though I could do better adhering to his strict definition of a water fast… I may yet get there. I have noticed in the past that if I broke a fast and didn’t allow enough recovery days between, that I would really struggle with (and probably end) my next fasting attempt. All the best with your next set of bloodwork and doctor visit, but remember this is a lifestyle change, and lasting change happens over time. I gripe all the time about being frustrated and wanting to see faster healing with my diabetes, but when I stand back and look at the big picture, there is improvement, including some amazing ones in my health. It is a journey of constantly getting better at this and fine-tuning it to our individual needs.

@Helewisa, congrats on the 46 hours! I thought of you as I gave up at hour 26! :slight_smile: At the time I felt like I would be sick if I didn’t eat something, but after I ate I felt sick that ate, the typical cycle for me. The reason I was starving was the hike and climbing I did today on my son’s field trip to Devil’s Lake park (in Baraboo, WI). The trails take you up the bluffs on trails built in the 1930s, and the ascent is a climb up a steep staircase of rocks. Some of the stairs were not too bad, almost like going up a regular staircase, but some of the steps were like doing the Fanny Lifter step excercises from The Firm workout videos I used to do. I was not alone in the parents, teachers and other adults in our group in needing to take frequent breaks. I was constantly popping pink salt and pulling my water bottle out of my backpack. It was a little scary, climbing like I never usually do and in a fasted state. I was only a little dizzy a couple of times, not bad, but that darn backpack was throwing off my balance, which is already a little iffy because of neuropathy. Nevertheless, I survived the climb. The rest of the hike was long but most of it was not too treacherous. It was beautiful, and exhausting, and made me very hungry by the time we got home. (I am also very sore and not looking forward to how I’ll feel tomorrow!) I thought I’d share some pics.

rocks-we-climbed-up
We climbed up rocks like these. Up and up and up.

darcy-top-of-bluff
Bedraggled but alive - made it to the top! Much rejoicing.


One of the easier rock stairways. I climbed down this one.

the-views-were-worth-the-effort

The views were well worth the effort. If you’re ever in the area, I recommend hiking Devil’s Lake, especially in the fall. About one more week and this place will be an explosion of fall color. I hear it can be a little crowded in the summer, but this time of year, at least on a weekday, it was very nice.


#103

Darcy, this is a great photo “essay” of your fasting hike, and how gorgeous! Your cheeks became a nice rosy pink as well :smiley:
Fasting has been so hard for me lately, and I’m just struggling with a lot of personal/family concerns. So, as I’ve mentioned, the stress = overeating for me. One day perhaps I will tame that unhealthy response.
Meanwhile, how did you break your fast? Are you feeling sore today?
I had a marvelous hike up Borestone Mountain about a week ago and didn’t feel nearly as bad as I thought I might…in fact, I felt great the next day! Keto? Your photos show that it is fairly similar to my area, is this the driftless zone? My younger son’s father lives in Gays Mills. It is so pretty in that region.
And so, my FBG was 104 today (yesterday it had been a lovely 88). It seems that no matter what, I keep having elevated FBG every morning. Only in a fasted state of over 36 or 40 hours does it seem to come down in the morning…ho-hum.
Keep rockin’ October and thanks for the sharing!


#104

That was an interesting question. I remembered our guide telling us yesterday that the bluffs around the lake were studied by geologists because some rocks date back to the precambrian era, and the pink quartzite is only found in that area - formed from sandstone left there when there was an ocean covering the area, and then compressed, folded and lifted to form the quartzite, called Baraboo Quartzite. A nice little description of the geology is here. I believe the hills there form the eastern border of the driftless zone. The lake was formed by the enclosure made by deposits that form the “snout” of a glacier 20,000 years ago, so it is a glacier formation, not itself in the driftless area.

I am not too sore today! I felt more stiff and sore after driving home yesterday than I do today. However, I woke up extremely dizzy, the worst case of dizziness I’ve had in a while. It is either an inner ear thing related to allergies and sinuses (my allergies are acting up after being out in nature all day yesterday) or it is electrolytes. It is pretty bad though, so much so that when I was trying to unload the dishwasher I got so dizzy I couldn’t stand up or walk unassisted, plus I got a headache and a hot flash and nausea… at that point I really started thinking, this is electrolytes. So I am sitting her having some salty soup and Emergenc Electromix along with taking my supplements which include magnesium, and hoping this is all better soon. I’m ok now that I’ve been sitting for a while, but I’ll see in a bit when I try moving around more.

My BG this morning was 312, so that was not awesome. I drank some of the apple cider vinegar/cranberry/lemon drink (4 grams carb) first thing like I’m supposed to on this program, and when I tested my sugar an hour later, it had gone up to 332. I guess that is what one would expect after drinking something with fruit juice. I really don’t think I can keep including that in my plan. If I really have that 3 times a day it’s 16 grams of carb and a lot of fructose I don’t need. It will be an interesting discussion Thursday when I see the doc.

You are probably already familiar with physiologic insulin resistance. Do you think that could be what you are experiencing?

One more Devil’s Lake pic just cuz, pretty.
devils-lake


(Doug) #105

The genesis of a fast: yesterday morning I ate, then had a long drive. Not eating makes it easy to just keep going, and at my destination I stayed up late, then slept late this morning, and now it’s evening and already 37 hours are under my belt.

Easiest thing in the world. Had two cups of tea a while ago, feel really good. Zornfest is this coming week. I wonder…


#106

This sounds like a fascinating hike, especially with a guide to explain the geologic processes. I’ve had a smattering of geology and soil science so I always pay close attention to these details. But, I have to admit that I do not retain the details nearly as well as you. Outstanding! Thank you for the link :wink:
Thankfully you had no real, lasting soreness after a full day’s hike, but it does sound like you had a real need for some electrolytes today! Wow, scary symptoms. It makes me think of ketoaid and a need to perhaps take some pre-packed ketoaid in a dry mix that could be added to water when doing this kind of work out fasted. I know you had the salt, but the magnesium and potassium would probably have been good too. Maybe some calcium citrate? Just “thinking out loud”.
As for that cranberry and lemon drink, that contains enough carbs, yes, and especially 3-4x/day
I’m curious to find out how this all progresses for you, on the plan you have started that is. Those BG numbers are surely bothersome. But, you keep on plugging away at it, so I have great respect for your striving to get this all in balance.
I remember reading about the physiologic IR and agree, yes, maybe that is just what is happening! I followed your link and quickly saw that I had in fact investigated these before! I feel foolish actually, that I hadn’t remembered this after my own research not long ago. I’m going to blame it all (the forgetting) on my over-stressed current life situation.
You know, this really means that I have got to find a good lab deal and have some bloodwork done to help me answer some questions. I only wish that I could afford to have some more extensive testing of hormones as well.
So, thank you again and keep us updated! Love the just because photo!


#107

After this weekend of eating, I already feel like I need a good fast…the Zorn Fast…yes…maybe this will be the ticket!


#108

The wife is considering doing a fat fast for a five day period and I may do a “real” fast parallel to that for support. I haven’t done an extended fast yet, nothing beyond 36 hrs. It won’t be this week because, reasons.


(Donna ) #109

Unplanned EF, but stuff happens. I was just coming off a 45 hour EF, when a crown came off Saturday evening while I was eating soup. Soup?!? I can’t eat hot/cold, only body-temperature liquids. I was planning on doing a few days of 19:5, but I guess I’ll do a mini EF until I can get the crown put back on, hopefully Monday afternoon.
Eating just isn’t worth it if I have to make sure it’s body temperature and soft. Good thing I know all about fasting! This would have been a super-bummer before, not so much of a thang now.

We are going to the Herbie Hancock concert tonight in New Orleans, so I made myself some bulletproof coffee, which I never do. But, I didn’t have time to feast before this EF and we will be out really late, so I wanted to have some coconut oil in my system.

I’m going to put some pink Himalayan salt rocks in my purse. (Hope they don’t search it and think I’ve got some special new kind of pink crack! I can just see myself trying to explain IF/EF, my broken tooth, and need for salts to the police. LOL)


(Liz ) #110

Ugh I’ve had a crown come off, no fun! I hope it gets resolved fast. But you did make me lol, I wonder all the time what someone would make of my purse salt and my magnesium caps if I had to explain what I carry around :smile:


#111

Isn’t it great how much easier it is to roll with things now? Not being chained to frequent eating is liberating.

Ha! I have often thought about that when I pull out my little bag of crystals in the university library. I am probably under surveillance.

In regards to my dizzy spells, I am still not positive, but I am leaning toward it’s my sinuses aggravated by worsening allergies after being out in nature all day Friday. Today I bought some Mucinex-D. This has always been my go-to when my sinuses started getting too congested, but that doctor I saw in August had recommended against it, I think because he was worried I was about to have a heart attack any minute. In the past, a physician’s assistant had recommended that I do take real pseudoephedrine for my sinuses, because it just works better than the stuff you don’t have to give your driver’s license over for. I think it’s starting to work. At the same time I am paying close attention to electrolytes, because that may still be part of this. I also am making sure not to lean down or over too much because that really starts my head spinning.

My doctor wrote about seeing how I do with adding more veg to my diet and is still considering the option of a GLP-1 analogue medication for my blood sugar. However, I think I am going to try her original plan for me, which is backing off of dairy, maybe getting off of it completely for a while. (Yeah, if you know me, this is crazy.) I at least want to try to get off the heavy whipping cream for a while. I tried the organic cream. It was definitely a better quality, with a yellow color to it. However, I could taste the grass-fed-ness of it, and I apparently don’t like that aftertaste. I think it’s a bad sign that I am so hooked on commercial dairy cream. I have been getting a lot of my calories from that, to the detriment of more variety and nutrients, so there may be something to this. Baby steps - I am just going to lay off the cream for now, and still enjoy cheese and butter.

Daily intermittent fasting is okay with my doctor, so tomorrow I will focus on that. I guess the big decision is, to eat breakfast or not to eat breakfast. I am also backing off caffeine and aspartame, which affects what I would usually do in the morning, either coffee with HWC or Berocca. I am leaning toward trying the smoothie thing again, but maybe wait til late morning to eat.

Have a great week everyone. I love being able to catch up on your adventures here.


#112

This would be so hard for me too. I just love my cheese and cream and…cream cheese and sour cream!
What is a GLP-1 analogue med? I could look it up, but you give great explanations and then others will have it here in the search option as well :wink:
I keep thinking about your comment regarding the possibility of physiologic IR and now I am going to have to find a way to get the labs done as cheaply as possible. I just don’t want, and won’t likely do a glucose tolerance test, but rather just a fasting insulin.
Have a great week, and be careful with those pink crystals! :smiley:


#113

Warrior fast today. I did my first measurements with the Ketonix this morning, 12 ppm, which puts me firmly into ketosis.

We are thinking that we will both do a fat fast next week.


(Mark Rhodes) #114

The week of color at Devil’s Lake there is an obscene amount of people. We went about four years ago with the dogs and regretted it. However my two dogs ( a Newfie and a Great Pyrenees ) both climbed the Devil’s Doorway path better than most of us! At first I thought your photos were Rib Mountain, which I believe is closer to you.


#115

Yes it is closer, we are hoping to take the kids up there next weekend to ride the lifts. Another gorgeous location. Wisconsin is a great place to live… when not 20 below and buried in snow and ice.


#116

Thanks, you flatter me. I don’t understand GLP-1 analogs very well, but they are used by Dr. Nally for patients who are not getting their blood sugar under control with keto. I should probably talk about these as a class of drugs called incretin mimetics. They are injectable drugs.

The drug I heard Dr. Nally discuss on the Keto Talk podcast was Symlin, which is a synthetic version of the hormone amylin, or an amylin analog. I think (but can’t say 100%) that it is different from the other incretin mimetcs in that it provides a substitute for amylin instead of stimulating your body’s production of amylin. Amylin is the hormone that tells glucagon to stop telling the liver to make more glucose. It seems that if amylin is low, then the liver over-produces glucose, which would explain high blood glucose readings in the absence of a high carb diet. (@VLC.MD found some info about scary potential side-effects of Symlin, FYI.)

Victoza is a true GLP-1 mimetic, and I heard Nally mention that one in passing on a “Doc Talk” video. He thinks it is fantastic, but didn’t get into it more than that. GLP-1 mimetics work to lower blood glucose by increasing the body’s secretion of insulin (I am not a fan of that part), slowing gastric emptying and making you feel full, and decreasing glucagon. Dr. Richard Bernstein uses these products to assist with weight loss because of the improved satiety (he goes into these in detail in his book Dr. Bernstein’s Diabetes Solution Ch. 13 “How to Curb Carbohydrate Craving.”)

I need to research more on the risk of the dangers of taking Symlin. To me it sounds like just what I need, or at least I won’t know unless I try it. (There is no way to test for amylin levels apparently. So if it’s low, I would know if it improves with Symlin.) It is very tempting, because it seems like nothing else works and there is no good explanation for how high my blood glucose goes on keto than if my liver is over-producing glucose – there is nothing to tell the glucagon to shut up.

However, maybe this will get better with more fasting. There has been some improvement, though without extended fasting the sugars seem to just climb right up. I have yet to try consistently doing a 42-hour schedule. I should probably give that a shot before going to pharmaceuticals (I have given them enough money over the years).

Then there is that pesky question of dairy. I keep reading “some people react badly to dairy” in terms of blood glucose. I want to research that further.

By the way, I am going to start a blog because I need somewhere to keep track of all these things I am exploring. It is hard - you read about something in a forum or hear it on a podcast and it sounds like something worth checking out, but life gets busy and it slips away…

Anyway that is my attempt to summarize about incretin mimetics including GLP-1 and amylin analogs.


(Doug) #117

Wow, Mark, what a great pair. :slightly_smiling_face: My wife had a Great Pyrenees in the past, and we plan to get those same two breeds you have.

Any chance of a picture of them?


(Mark Rhodes) #118

20150120_091001


Keto pets ~ anyone have one?
(Mark Rhodes) #119

They are now strict keto as well. Herakles, the white one has a small tumor on his canine. It is not life threatening but is cancer. We got strict on his diet and it has not grown according to CT scans since January. As it is non-metastasizing there is little chance of it deteriorating his jaw or growing enough to block his nasal passage. treatment would be roughly 10K. He just turned 7, as did my Newf. So they both eat semi cooked organ meat, some kale or spinach. Coconut oil added and salt.

We all vacationed in Kentucky and Tennessee in August. They we unleashed almost the entire time. Enjoyed camping, the lakes and mountain trails and rivers. I take them everywhere with me, if possible. If not, mostly I don’t go.


(Doug) #120

What great, lovable beasts. :slightly_smiling_face: