OMAD - use for weight loss or no?

#42

How do you know that your body is keeping your blood sugar right?

When you do OMAD how many calories do you consume for that one meal? Have you ever done two days of OMAD in a row?

#43

While there are clearly some benefits to fasting, it is very difficult to measure what happening cellularly. Most experts in the field, such as Fung, use it as a tool to get blood sugar levels to normalize. The benefits also come with a downside: decreasing muscle mass. I just don’t feel that that trade-off is worthwhile, at least at the extreme level that I was at. (monthly and quarterly multi-day fasts). Over a period of 3 years, I lost about 10 pounds of lean mass. (DEXA) Holding on to muscle is essential as we age. Muscle loss slows down your metabolism and decreases your strength and functional ability to complete daily tasks with ease. Many times, a common scenario is that a person loses weight on the scale, but their body composition alters for the worse. Having read more than just a few papers on fasting, I believe it is a tool to be used by someone with high blood sugar levels, T2D, pre-T2D, or a body fat percentage over 35% and some muscle that they can afford to lose. Fung does not recommend fasting every day.

(Chuck) #44

I fast for an average of 19 hours daily, I eat plenty of protein, I eat a moderately low carb diet. I have also read lots of research and books about keto and low carb and even fasting with a high carb diet. I am 75 years young, I also do resistance training and I walk and hike at least 4 miles daily, then I do my daily chores both inside and outside of the house. I am not losing muscle! It wouldn’t be possible for me to be losing muscle if I am slimming my body fat percentage down while not losing weight.

(You've tried everything else; why not try bacon?) #45

Just bear in mind that the problem is not fueling the body. The problem is keeping the body supplied with nitrogen, which it needs for certain purposes, including making nitric oxide for keeping blood pressure low.

Unfortunately, the body can use only that nitrogen that comes as part of an amino acid, which is why the distinction between “crude protein” (nitrogen in any form) and “digestible protein” (amino acids) is so important. The result is an unavoidable daily nitrogen loss, and if that loss is not made up from amino acids in the diet, then the amino acids have to come from tissue, because the body has no practical way to store amino acids in any quantity.

Just how much muscle is lost when we fast can be debated, but it’s not nothing.

(Chuck) #46

That is why ir is so important to do resistance training and to get plenty of good protein in the diet. I may be 75 but I am still noticing improvement in my muscles, from my workouts and ensuring I get plenty of protein and sleep to repair my muscles. And I don’t do multiple day fast either.

(Rossi Luo) #47

Oops, it seems that OMAD every day like what I am doing is a debated topic, I don’t know much about Dr. Fung, as I am not a person believing any authority no matter who he is, I believe data, proof and how the data is collected is also important.
After all, it’s informative that OMAD every day has the risk to lose muscle, I will take that into consideration once I reversed my fatty liver at all one day, I think I will stop OMAD every day, I might change to two meals a day everyday.

(Polly) #48

You said. “I think I will stop OMAD every day, I might change to two meals a day everyday.”

The obvious alternative, whilst ensuring that you have enough good food going in, is to mix things up a little. Do OMAD when you feel like it and 2MAD on other days. Have a four hour eating window [time restricted feeding] sometimes and and 8 or 12 hour window on other days.

(Robin) #49

OMAD is my norm, but I switch it up sometimes when my body is obviously hungry again.

#50

It is my norm too, but I am going to change that. I somehow don’t feel I am eating enough - well - that’s bad wording. I feel that my eating window isn’t long enough, or that I fast too much. OMAD just became a habit, and often I eat OMAD because I am busy with something and don’t want to cook. I don’t know, it’s just a feeling, but I’ll make room for it and see.

(You've tried everything else; why not try bacon?) #51

Trust your body. If you are feeling a need for more food, eat it! Fasting yields a highly variable individual response, which is why we don’t encourage newcomers to fast. I also understand that carnivores are advised to eat three meals a day and not attempt to fast at all, for reasons I don’t remember. So dietary pattern is apparently also relevant. Also body composition–Richard Morris even wrote a book about why fasting is difficult for very lean people.

(Chuck) #52

I agree, I am finding as I continue to lean I am having to at times break my fast earlier some days. I definitely encourage anyone that fast to learn to really listen to their body’s needs. I have learned to recognize when I need to break my fast earlier and when I can fast for longer periods, I have also learned to recognize when my body is needing some nutrient that I haven’t been giving it.
I keep hitting on my beliefs in balanced metabolism. When I get the feeling that I need to break my fast early it is because something is out of balance with my metabolism the same is true if my body is craving some nutrient that I haven’t been giving it.

#53

Because it’s my body and I am the exact opposite of a hipochonder :smiley: I really believe in my health :slight_smile:
I didn’t notice any problems regarding blood sugar so I obviously suppose it’s right. I never think about it and hardly will start. I just don’t make problems when I experience none, it wouldn’t be hedonistic.

Yes, I had several OMAD days in row once (that was one of the few short periods on keto when I lost some weight) and I usually have a few OMAD days before it falls apart. It depends but 1500-1800 kcal is typical (1500 is a bit small meal so it’s tricky but occasionally I can get away with it), I did 2000 too in the past but it drops after some days and on carnivore too. It’s great for my small energy need. I have about 100-170g protein per OMAD meal, that’s important too.
I could eat more if it was needed, maybe raising my eating window to 1.5-2 hours but 1 hour is long enough if I am determined and have a proper supply. And if it’s really the day where I can’t eat enough for OMAD, it becomes a non-OMAD day, I am fine with that. OMAD isn’t my goal, it’s just seem to be the best way to reach my actual ones on the average day.

(KM) #54

Yes, I agree. Eating nearly no carbs is usually easy for me. So is fasting for several days. If I find myself miserable and thinking about eating, or thinking about a certain food, I’m pretty sure my body is telling me about something I need. It doesn’t tend to tell me I’m chocolate or beer deficient. :grin:

#55

Before I even had heard about OMAD,I did “Warrior Diet” for a couple of years. It´s the same principle, a big feast every night. I continued OMAD for months in a row without really thinking of it. Felt natural.

That was 20 years ago,I was very low carb back then,too. I don´t think I was doing it for losing weight at that point but I remember how great it felt and I was in good condition,healthy,back then. Eg. long days moose hunting, running around swamps,drinking water only.

I find myself naturally slipping in OMAD now again,after only five weeks in this new keto. I do not force it and today I added fat in my coffee. Just to add some fat for the day. Those fat add-ons could be considered mini meals, butter and coconut oil.

I also found that reading this board sometimes triggers my appetite so I just had a piece of salami, an hour before my usual 7 PM dinner time. :slight_smile: We talk mostly about eating,no wonder.

But I´m not sure about OMAD being the greatest way for weight loss. OMAD done right, you ARE starving your body for a while in that 23 hour break,aren´t you? I don´t mean hunger, there usually is none for me.

#56

After several years wanting to do OMAD (or at least a tiny eating window 2MAD, that works too if my meals are small), I think I can give it a shot again! Even on carnivore, I think I have a chance now. We will see.
I am pretty sure I have almost no chance for fat-loss without OMAD, I just overeat. My energy need is too tiny, a proper energy intake for my fat-loss is a single cute meal especially using the dense carni food I like. OMAD can’t guarantee fat-loss but without it, I hardly could do it. But it may be different for longer term carnivore especially if I focus on lean meat as much as I can. We will see, again.

No, why would we? We are humans, not shrews or hummingbirds, we don’t need to eat all the time (well, frequently. that feels all the time to me, annoying). We are different, sure, some people can’t help to starve on OMAD, others can eat big enough meals but they don’t feel optimal without food for so long… It’s not for everyone. And maybe I wrote it before but OMAD triggers overeating in some cases… That doesn’t help fat-loss.
My body is VERY vocal about feeling starved and whenever I do OMAD, it is very content. That’s why I can do that on that day… I can imagine it being more or less dangerous for people who don’t have such a feedback. Even without hunger, my body tells me if it needs food so as long as I feel fine, I don’t worry about it.

Maybe I should go for OMAD (and carnivore) without worrying about fat intake and even protein (not like I actually worry, per se but I do think about it and try to make good decisions)… I probably will make experiments, they are entertaining and may give me useful data! I know that if I do carnivore OMAD, it’s not very easy for me to overeat… And if it’s a late meal, I may pull it off even if my protein intake is a tad lower. I see so many advantages of OMAD for me. It helps with keeping my carbs low and my diet closer to carnivore and they are highly useful for fat-loss and other things. OMAD is special, my interest in food is mostly turned off after a decent sized meal, for a long time. I still gladly think and talk about food but it’s way more distant and there are no desire to eat.
I need less other restrictions on OMAD, things just fall into place better as far as I can tell now, it was long ago I did OMAD for more than a few days and I ate very differently back then.

Talking about food usually helps me with fasting, just like cooking. The latter is a tad more dangerous as I actually end up being surrounded by nice food (if I cook for myself) at the time when I already am able to eat… But while I am cooking, I probably won’t eat. So when I really want to push fasting, just an hour more or something, cooking is a great idea. I know others have the opposite, that makes sense too.
If I want to do EF, I like to avoid cooking except in the morning when I definitely am satiated. It’s nice then as I get food joy without eating. My brain works that way, I would miss food if I did nothing related to it. Talking is best for food I love but don’t eat for a while. Some items have a nice smell and smelling them is satisfying but not triggering…

(KM) #57

I’d like to be a fly on the (cave) wall and know more about our evolution. Were we basically scavenging what we could find, little bites of this and that, a grasshopper here, a handful of berries there, all day long, like monkeys? Or was it typical to have a big hunt, feast on meat if we succeeded, and then nothing, more like lions? Or were we so flexible that neither pattern was preferable?

#58

Sure we are all individuals. Based on my past, I never used calorie restriction to lose weight in low carb / keto. I lost very well.

But when I go OMAD I get satiated with a big meal that may be only 1000 kcal. Like yesterday, I added yogurt and fats to get higher but 1400 was it. Now that will keep my hunger away all day today. I can repeat this to no end. I´d say I´m starving even tough I don´t feel anything like that. I´m feeling great.

I don´t find that good at 100 kg because I´m trying to lose weight now. I will stall if I go on OMAD , I need my 2000 kcal to lose weight. And no exercise in winter really. Just some walks.

So I will heat up the afternoon Sauna and steam some sausages to get eating more again. OMAD just leads me to cal restrict so easily. Need to watch it.

And I like OMAD / very low carb feel a lot. No food worries at all during the day. But there is my personal danger of undereating,sneaking around the corner.

#59

We obviously don’t need intentional calorie restriction to lose fat, I just ate as little as I comfortably could on low-carb (i.e. I ate when hungry and got satiated well, it worked back then) and lost fat just fine without tracking. The deficit must be happening, no matter what, not necessarily between eaten and used up calories, the body may just waste some. Mine isn’t prone to that except it likes raising my metabolism when I overeat so I never could gain fat at a noticeable speed even when I definitely seriously overate for a long while. I had no or very tiny deficit, I just ate way more than what I needed but my body made it so it still used it up instead of storing.

1000 kcal OMAD is a great thing in my life but it’s very rare, it’s for fat fast days. I must keep my protein below 20-30g for that to happen or else it’s a very, very tiny meal, even if I get satiated by it (bad food choices for OMAD…), I get hungry in no time. OMAD is for me is I can skip lunch. But as you experienced, not everyone can keep up with the mealsize. Many can’t even comfortably eat 2000 kcal meals (or whatever they need), some can but not on OMAD. One meal always made my mealsize diminish so I still suppose I need some good planning and not stopping when merely satiated or the occasional TMAD. We will see what I will do. Lean meat based carni OMAD may be tricky but I combine everything I have, I have worked a lot for my habits and somewhat my taste to change! It’s exciting, today is my first day, again. I try to stick to it longer this time.

I would add pork jowl or pork belly, probably. Processed cooked meats and extremely tempting. The first is especially effective, I just eat 100g (it’s little and tasty and mostly fat so it’s ridiculously easy even when just satiated by a tiny meal. not like I often tried it out so maybe not and it’s just me) and bam, +800 kcal. Adding protein when satiated is somewhat trickier but I have my ways. Usually. Carnivore sometimes give me a too strong stop sign. But I just wait half an hour and have another very small but dense meal then, no problem, a tiny eating window is good for me even with 2 meals (and I may consider it one if they are that close… doesn’t matter, really).
Drinking fat (and protein) is easy too. For me, at least. But I will check it from now on. I will eat, track and if it’s not enough, I will eat more. Or decide on 2 dinner TMAD, who knows. I really don’t like to push eating as it was tricky enough to keep myself from it all my life.

Yes, 1400 kcal seems very low for you though I have heard so many stories and some people can pull off things others surely couldn’t… But it does seem low to me. I would feel safer with a bit more. Maybe more than a bit in your case (2000 kcal may be perfect, I liked when I ate that much and slimmed down to 69kg. without much exercise, even. eating this little on low-carb was easy, I just loved it), you are heavier than me and probably need significantly more energy to function well.

Walks are good. Winter is good for exercise, my usual overheating problem is way less! Summer is my least active season as I try to avoid leaving the house but of course, I must go out here and there… . And there are many ways to exercise inside too.

Some fatty, tempting sausages can help with extra energy for sure! I can’t eat much of it, I have this with almost all processed stuff (well if I make it, it’s just a meal… I rarely make them, I can buy so good ones…) but even 1-2 smaller ones help a lot. Just not every day, that would be too processed meat-y to me. Even fattier options need smaller amounts if the protein isn’t a problem.

Oh yes, blissful well-fasted state, it’s a big plus. I can’t undereat but if I eat too little for my planned OMAD meal, I will just get hungry later and that may work but OMAD works better.

I will start with lean protein and switch to fatty meat/eggs/dairy when I had enough. And there are my fat fast days where I avoid protein and have a tiny (even visibly, it has barely any volume!), borderline too fatty 1000 kcal meal. Those are very good, help with missing fat due to my normal days. It’s the worst, I kept trying, kept overeating and kept missing fat for so many years… Not so much on carnivore though as I do eat much fat per volume and that matters. That’s why fat fast days help even with their even smaller fat intake. My food is 40% fat in weight there, at least. My normal day varies, of course but 20% sounds about right. (I don’t count my drinks even if they have calories.) It was WAY lower on my original keto as I had vegs, way more eggs still retaining their water content and even soups. Carnivore was such a drastic change, I suddenly couldn’t handle the significantly raised fat density in my food! (For about 3 days, I can adapt to fattier styles, I LOVE fat.)

#60

I´m still adapting so none of this really matters to me. I´m going my old ways, enough food and fat for now. Ketones are still high.

But it´s good to have options just in case. Summer changes my life big time, very probably to OMAD because I will (hopefully) be on my motorbike a lot again. That is my gym. There just is not much to eat at gas stations or cafe´s. Even the (nice) steamed sausages have my whole day´s carbs in one sausage.

Oh I miss summer…

#61

One can always bring their own food… I even ate on a motorbike, very little though. There was a day in one of the 48 hour tours (there were many people and a task we had to do, at various places of the country. it was just a quick one so it was mostly riding and sleeping. especially us who were slow) when we started very far away but I wanted to come home to sleep. 17 hour motorbike riding on a single day (and it continued on the next, that was less though) :smiley: Part of it was in the dark, we surely had no time to stop for a normal meal! It was a pity normal motorbike riding isn’t exercise so it didn’t help with fat-loss at all… I barely ate while riding but alas humans easily eat a ton in a little time… Good times. Even if there was one day with rain (and wind. my tiny bike got a maximum speed at 100km/h. the speed limit happened to be higher right then) and there was super hot sometimes… I remember waiting for a train to pass, dressed in black :smiley: It was just a few minutes, riding itself was okay. Winter is worse (if it’s cold and the ride is longer).

Carby sausages? What an abomination! IDK about gas station food here but the sausages I buy in supermarkets are very low-carb. The blood and liver things are full with rice but we use a different word for them, not sausage. Sausage has meat and lots of paprika, not carbs. (I do love white sausages occasionally, we have those too but the vast majority is red from paprika, it’s Hungary, after all. Those are the best.)
What does carb do in sausages, really?