October 2018 IF / EF Chat ALL WELCOME

(8a37b36176e47902a5a1) #121

I guess 2MAD is out too 4 me :sob:

(8a37b36176e47902a5a1) #122

Mine goes from pity “Why are u making me suffer? What did I ever do to u?” to being mean “Soooo ur into torture, eh? I didn’t know u were that kinda girl” to downright demanding “FEED ME!! FEED ME NOW!!”:joy:

(Running from stupidity) #123

Seeing as you asked nicely…

(I came for the weight loss and stayed for my sanity... ) #124

66h head is a bit off. But just a tad.
I think I’ll have a cup of bonebroth for breakfast. I really need my head today

(Allie) #125

No way of judging autophagy at all, not even sure what I’m looking for, but IGF1 (HGH - human growth hormone) seems to be doing its thing :blush:

(Allie) #126

You have to find what works for you personally, not decide what to try based on others experiences :heart:

I’m always changing things depending on how I feel. Some days OMAD early in the morning as I’ve found late evening meals don’t work for me, sometimes 2MAD, sometimes a four hour eating window, sometimes six, or just two. Occasionally i will still have a late evening meal even though I know it messes with my progress, like I did last night. It really depends what I feel like on that day at that time. Today I’m fasting again.

(Running from stupidity) #127

Yep. I’m currently trying to decide if I’m doing an EF from tomorrow for a few days while my wife is away for a few days with her parents, who are visiting (and staying here, see next sentence). Trying to decide if feeling like crap (depression) is a GOOD time to fast, given who cares anyway, or a BAD time, because maybe I need to not fast while feeling like this. So maybe I should try it, given I have any number of data points about keeping eating when this happens :slight_smile:

(back and doublin' down) #128

I’m just going to throw this out there. Maybe it’s a GREAT time to fast. Without the food intake for comfort (as in "let’s cover up or ignore these feelings by stuffing) you’d have an opportunity to really look at what’s prompting those emotions and sort out what’s in your control, what you can do activity or thought wise to shift those feelings. I find more clarity when I’m fasting.

Fasting connects me with my body in a holistic way. I’ve decided to pack only water and tea bags for my long work day, and see if I can extend beyond 24 hours, would love to get in a 48 or 72 hr fast. Got some mental stuff to break through myself :slight_smile:

Love all the inspiring adventures happening!

(Running from stupidity) #129

Chemical imbalances in my stupid brain :wink: It hasn’t been this bad for a few weeks, so I’d kinda forgotten what it feels like in terms of how bad it gets (stupid brain, again). I remember what it was like but don’t FEEL what it was like, so it hits you like a truck whenever it returns.

I’ll go crash now and decide in the morning after a walk to the markets to buy more meat :slight_smile: Also some veges, but really, it’s about meat :slight_smile:

(I came for the weight loss and stayed for my sanity... ) #130

73h.

I am full of energy, but some people are really being annoying at work today. Causing me to go full on rebel mode and trowing their [spoiler]shit[/spoiler] back at them.
keep it professional, sure, but I am nobody’s pushover… :face_with_raised_eyebrow:

(Running from stupidity) #131

I will return to my usual suggestion in this situation.

Car bombs.

(I came for the weight loss and stayed for my sanity... ) #132

Too little sleep always throws me into mini depressions, also lack of physical activity. Hope you feel better soon! :hugs:

Update: If you have trouble sleeping during fasts, I love the headspace app for mini meditations in bed…

(Mark Rhodes) #133

Consider Angus Barbieri who lost just under 300 pounds on a 382 day medically supervised fast. This is the equivalent of .7 pounds a day. Or Meagan Ramos who say that her patients lose between 1/2 -5/8 a pound a day. If one pound of fat is equal to 3,500 calories and the average person would use 2300 calories then 2300/3500 = .657 of a pound. This also dovetails well into @richard 's use of Alpert’s paper that we can only use 31 calories per pound of body fat daily. The more obese the more you can lose daily…it is a continuum. 75 pounds of body fat is the equivalent of 2325 accesibile calories or .66 pound. Plus our collective experience seems to limit FAT loss to .6 pound per day on average if you have enough body fat to lose. If you are like me trying to get below 15% BF…hahahaha good luck!!! It is not easy as I have found out!

(Carpe salata!) #134

I thought you said carb bombs and started to panic!

:laughing:

(Running from stupidity) #135

:metal::metal:

(I came for the weight loss and stayed for my sanity... ) #136

I need to step up my snarky sarcastic shirt game, and then again I risk that they will not get the insults… :thinking::expressionless::expressionless:

(Central Florida Bob ) #137

This implies that there’s probably a max rate in terms of calories per hour that we can get out of our bodyfat.

I have around 45 pounds of body fat, which says I can only get 1674 calories per day. If that were spread over a full day, it’s only about 70 calories/hour.

Monday, at hour 41 or so of a fast, I did a bike ride. According to some other equations I found somewhere, I was riding at rates around 600 calories/hour. I felt a bit more tired and “whupped” both out there and when I got home than I normally do. Overall, though, it was a short ride - only a half hour - with an average of about 260 calories burned. It’s just the rate that seemed to matter. After about half an hour cool down, I felt normal and I went ahead and broke the fast at about 42 hours. (I also took my blood pressure and it was low-ish - 110/74).

I’d frankly never thought I’d need to think about this! It seems it might be possible that even at around 22 or 25% BF, I’m running into the limits of what I can get out of body fat.

(Mark Rhodes) #138

Hadn’t thought about it that way. Since very few things are binary in the human body I am hesitant to agree
Wouldn’t the down time, i.e. sleep, rest etc. breaking fats down through glycogenolysis and gluconeogenesis store energy in the skeletal muscles allowing access to on demand calorie needs rather than making them as you go? For me during a fast I can watch my BG rise and fall due to energy needs. As I get more active my βHB drops and my BG goes up. If i then rest after a period of activity I also find out that my breath acetone rises which I assume means a greater use of fat oxidation.

I posted this information earlier but I do so again as it shows the BG rising as my day at work gets more active.
After my fast when I log hours fasted as 7 or 8 this is sleep and coffee and heavy cream. Without steady fasting you can see my BG go 5.6 pretty much as my average. We still have dual fuel systems even being fat adapted.

Date Time BG mmol βHB BRace GKI Brace GKI GKI DUO HR fasted
10/3/2018 7:00 AM 3.8 2.8 69.4 1.36 0.99 1.85 67:00:00
9:30 AM 4.8 3.9 84.4 1.23 1.02 1.74 69:30:00
12:00 PM 4.4 3.8 63.7 1.16 1.24 1.78 72:00:00
3:00 PM 4.2 5.8 57 0.72 1.33 1.39 75:00:00
8:30 PM 4.6 3.2 1.44 #DIV/0! #DIV/0! 80:30:00
Date Time BG mmol βHB BRace GKI Brace GKI GKI DUO HR fasted
10/3/2018 Average 4.36 3.9 68.625 1.12 1.14 1.69 DAY 3
10/4/2018 7:00 AM 3.9 4 65.2 0.98 1.08 1.51 91:00:00
11:00 AM 4.7 4.4 83.1 1.07 1.02 1.58 95:00:00
2:30 PM 4.1 6.3 70.5 0.65 1.05 1.17 98:50:00
10/4/2018 Average 4.23 4.90 72.93 0.86 1.04 1.39 106:00:00
10/5/2018 7:00 AM 4.7 6 95 0.78 0.89 1.23 0:00:00
12:00 PM 4.7 3.3 108.4 1.42 0.78 76.11
10/6/2018 12:00 PM 4.6 2.8 24 1.64 3.45 14.61
10/7/2018 12:00 PM 4.7 2.6 1.81 #DIV/0! 0.00
10/8/2018 7:00 AM 5.2 0.5 18.6 10.40 5.04 12.92 8:00
10/9/2018 7:00 AM 5.8 1.1 49.1 5.27 2.13 6.34 5:00
9:00 AM 6.1 0.8 57.5 7.63 1.91 8.58 7:00
2:30 PM 6 0.8 20 7.50 5.41 10.20
(Central Florida Bob ) #139

Hadn’t thought to take my blood sugar. Definitely should have. That’s easier to do during exercise if I’m indoors on a stationary bike than if I’m out on the road.

I’m trying to get this all to mesh in my mind. It seems there has to be some sort of rate limit to all energy pathways: either calories from fat, energy from gluconeogenesis or any other pathway.

The simplest, and therefore most likely, explanation for feeling almost bonked is that I’m an out of shape 64 yo guy! I’m working my way back into shape, after all, and I’m not there yet!

(Mark Rhodes) #140

:rofl: 54! looking to get to 64!!! Great Job there Bob!!