OCT 2021 Monthly Group Fast (20th-23rd)

(Tim Cee) #41

Are you normally a caffeine user? Could the headache be caffeine withdrawal?

(Tim Cee) #42

Liver makes it. An insulin resistant person’s glucose is higher fasting then a healthy person because even the amount the liver makes is difficult to uses. The reason the liver up-regulates glucose is so brain, blood cells etc keep working normally. So keep doing things to lower insulin resistance and you’ll make progress.

(KCKO, KCFO) #43

Your fat stores. There is a lot of info in the forums about why after extending fasts BG raises. Dr. Fung did a youtube lecture on it as well.

(KCKO, KCFO) #44

Great that you didn’t let a stumble stop you.

I’m working on hr. 18 of my fast. So far, so good.


(Tim Cee) #45

148/86. Ended up OMAD last couple days.


Hi guys! I was somewhat determined but I had a very painful bellyache with other problems on Sunday, got better on Monday but it’s still a bit tender.
I lost my remaining tiny appetite but my body is still working and expects its fuel, at least a big part of it.

Thanks to my zero or less desire to eat until I feel it would do good to me, I stuck to OMAD since Sunday except yesterday when I just needed more fuel than what a single meal could provide (especially that I didn’t want my 2 staples for a while). I never can do OMAD for very long but it became my new default, yay!

But I still wanted something stricter from this group fast so I don’t only do OMAD if I can (never eating before 4pm. I am always perfectly satiated until that time) but my food choices are restricted. No-dairy carnivore. It’s easy, nice and works well. Just causes low-cal low-protein days when I don’t have proper meat. But it won’t be a problem in the near future!

I drink… maybe 20 black coffees a day now? I always do that when my belly is off. My coffee is always extremely weak (I can’t stand bitter and even with my usual coffee drinking, I better drink them weak! I think one proper cup has as much coffee as 10 of mine but it’s just a guess, maybe it’s more) and doesn’t do anything to me, it just feels nice. I drink water too, I am the thirsty type! But I drink so many coffees that they provide some basic hydration…

(KCKO, KCFO) #47

64 hrs. in and so far, so good. No real desires to eat and I kept up my walks and exercise just fine.

@Shinita do remember that coffee is a diuretic, that is why I limit myself to a couple of cups of coffee most days. Even diluted you would get the effect. So unless it is just water you want to lose, maybe cut back a tad on even weak coffee?

I thought I had posted in here yesterday but since there isn’t one, I guess I didn’t. I did a lot of genealogy research and went down some rabbit holes, so food was the last thing on my mind.

What are others doing to distract or use the available time fasting gives you? Any new projects you’ve started?

Hoping everyone is carrying on with few issues.


I don’t really care if it’s diuretic, I drink more than enough water due to my extreme thirst and my body probably tells me if I need more sodium…
But I healed, it seems as I dislike black coffee again and only drank 3 (and 2 not black ones with my meals, I needed 2 again…)!
I am familiar with 10+ coffees every day for ages (just a guess, I am very bad with guessing), it never seemed to do any problems… I can’t just cut back the coffee, I don’t really have self control regarding these things. Coffee is the only thing carnivore couldn’t help with regarding consuming things. I make some vague attempts but when I am unwell, I drink coffee for most of my water. But extra water too, I can’t drink enough coffee to be okay with only that. Only until the evening at most.

Even without doing EF, I know the answer.
I can’t distract myself from being hungry and it’s good, hunger means I better eat. I just live my life normally as others between 2 meals… (Okay, not like that, I don’t actually live but that’s not the point.)
I don’t gain any time either, I cook every day but I can spend 1 hour with drinking coffee in the morning as well, I am a zombie before noon, always were.
Fasting AND not coming here due to no internet on my computer makes some time, I drew. I always wanted to learn to draw and put lots of effort into it, with little result but it’s probably normal for most of the people (who has no talent at it. I mean the big, very noticeable talent, not tiny ones. I am good at critique, i.e. spotting problems and seeing wonderful color combos… and I can copy well. my visual memory is horrible and I have close to zero imagination and I am very lazy. so it’s hard)… I am determined to get better at it now and somewhat quickly.

As for this group fast, I think I am kind of done… I needed a TMAD day again and even relaxing my ways. Maybe others can eat almost anything when hungry, at least their own staple foods, I don’t. I can be super hungry while not wanting my normal food. I may force myself but that’s not my style so I added a tiny extra. I try to have a strict day tomorrow and it’s almost surely will be OMAD but that’s it. I will continue with my more or less carni more or less OMAD and I am determined to do it better next time!

(KCKO, KCFO) #49

New Dr Fung video on the fasting mistake that people make most often.

(Tim Cee) #50

BP 128/78. For me the method of dealing with the urge to eat/fill the time otherwise eating is primarily structural. During the week I normally eat while I’m working. Mental distraction is mostly in the form of interesting podcasts such as 2ketodudes or Remi Warren’s “Cutting the distance.” I also plan to be out of reach of the fridge when I’m likely to be tempted. My normal work week is 60hrs plus, so there’s lots to do. I’m currently fasted since the last food Wednesday evening. I’m brainstorming my first meal. I’ll post it somewhere on the forum if it goes well.

(KCKO, KCFO) #51

It is now Sat. last day of this fast. When I awoke, I felt like I would like to eat. But when I having coffee and reading FB posting, I learned that one of my dearest friends had died. So I couldn’t cook for crying and food sounded horde to me then. .

He holds a special place in my heart and I’ve known him almost as long as anyone else I have ever known. RIP Dr. Ralph Voss you are missed by so many of us, I am at the top of that list.

I’ll think about breaking my fast this evening at dinner time or maybe even continue into tomorrow.

I am within one lb. of my goal weight, so this fast has really helped me. I will continue starting a monthly fast thread so I hope some of you will join me next month as well.


(Doug) #52

Nice post, @collaroygal. Dr. Voss must have been a fine person.

(KCKO, KCFO) #53

I broke my fast last night at dinner just as I had planned to, I also hit my goal weight again. So now I just have to stay here.

How is everyone else doing?



I’m not a coffee/tea drinker.


I’ve only eaten again at about noon on Thursday. It was tough, because my headache became worse, but besides that and feeling weak, I was otherwise ok.

I had a bit of problems when I started eating again. Cramps and the like. But only on Thursday. My BG didn’t go below 83 mg/dL.

Now I need to work out a lot to try to gain back the muscle I’ve surely lost.

The weight is almost all back already, as expected, since weight lost like this is mostly water.

I don’t think I’ll do it again.

I’m craving sweets, like candy bars.

(KCKO, KCFO) #56

Your body will not pull muscle first. Do some research, here is a good article to start with:

83 is well within the healthy range. When fasting over all, BS can raise, again search for it, lots of information about that on these forums

I personally find that doing too much exercise makes me put on weight since going low carb. Many others have reported the same thing here as well.



The point is not if we lose muscle first, or second. The point is that you do lose muscle when you fast. I’ve read the sources.

I’m weary of articles in commercial websites where gross generalizations are made based on a few picks off scientific papers. Was the research made with menopausal, non overweight women? Or obese young men? Etc. It makes a world of difference! And how long was the fast? What was the WOE before fast? Etc.

Example: I’m an old woman who doesn’t lose weight anymore. Meaning, whatever fat is left on me (my weight is in the “normal” category, body fat on hips), my body seems keen on keeping. So, a generalization based on any other population group doesn’t apply to me. A young, obese man has a lot of testosterone that I don’t and also a lot of fat his body is looking forward to shedding. So, I wouldn’t be surprised if he’d lose mostly fat while I’d lose mostly muscle. Who knows?

So, be cautious when you read an article, mainly if in a commercial website, making such gross generalizations.

As for Dr Fung, I’ve read 2 of his books and I think he often gives lots of super useful info for me. However, it doesn’t mean he never gets it wrong. Even Einstein made mistakes.

(Tim Cee) #58

I’m curious because there are outliers in humans. It could be you have an unusual biology that prevents you from getting into ketosis. Normally people of any age can lose fat by not eating sugar. Using muscle as energy is a last resort when starvation occurs. I wonder if it’s a good idea to fast if a person has a biological reason that they can’t get into ketosis. My parents are both years into retirement and have both just lost a lot of weight by going low carb. So I know some old ladies can. Just brainstorming here, but here are three things that might prevent a person from using their body fat while fasting:

They already have less than they need to harvest a full days worth of energy at 31K per lb of fat per day and need to supplement a little fat in their fast to maintain metabolic function.

Perhaps the person has an unusual biology that prevents them from fully switching to fat.

Perhaps there is a hidden source of insulinogenic influence such as artificial sweeteners, stress, or sleep deprivation.

@Corals is there literature that you’ve seen that applies to your situation. I am curious about a more unusual situation where a person can’t lose fat.


Sometimes I do think I may have some genetic disadvantage that results in less mitochondria than the next person. I don’t know.

If I’d go heavy on CICO, low fat, I’d lose. Like last Summer. I travelled by bicycle alone and had to go back to carbs, because it wasn’t possible to go on otherwise. It was super hot and I was cycling under the sun the whole day. So, I wasn’t eating much and I was burning a lot of calories with the exercising. And I lost weight.

But just eating low carb without a calorie deficit, no, I don’t lose weight anymore. I did lose a little right at the beginning of keto.

Anyway, I’m not in it to lose weight. My aim is to control BG. Keto helps a lot with that and it’s what I think I need. I want to avoid BG spikes after meals. Keto is wonderful with that.

As for old ladies losing fat, it isn’t only some of us who don’t lose. There are men here on the forum who have been keto for years and who can’t lose weight anymore. They lost at the beginning, but stopped losing.

About research, no, I haven’t found research with subjects like me. It is often done with young, obese men, or with sedentary people who are obese/overweight. When it is about BG, it’s often done with diabetics who are on medication. Sometimes they do with super fit athletes, etc.

I’m old, menopausal, have exercised my whole life, but never been a super athlete. I’ve never been overweight/obese. Ah, and I’m not caucasian. There’s that, too!

(KCKO, KCFO) #60

I’m also an older woman, over 70, and I did a lot of fasting to get to goal, I use it as one of my tools to stay in maintenance. I had no issues with muscle loss. I did strength training through out, nothing body building level, just practical strength. Now if I had fasted straight throw the whole time, almost 6 months, then I might have had a serious issue, but for the shorter extended fasts and IFing I did, no issue.
Fasting isn’t for everyone, but it is nice tool in the weight loss kit. Perhaps just some time restricted eating would work for you? I have friend getting great results as she is going through menopause.

I am well aware that my body is nothing like a young man’s. LOL

All the best on reaching your goals. Thanks for joining us this month.