OCT 2021 IF/EF Chat Thread (All Welcome)

#61

Yeah, same here. I just don’t like to Fast on Weekends, and never have. Always liked using them for playing around and creating new Keto recipes, etc. not to mention there’s more time to cook/prepare meals. Where-as the work days during the week are limited to me, since I’m gone a minimum of 11 hrs. So it doesn’t leave much time to make meals that require more prep. - But was just telling the Wife the same thing, that is really wouldn’t be that big of a deal I guess. Told her it basically boils down to either me breaking no later then tomorrow night, (Wednesday) or simply waiting for Sunday?

I’m a Bow Hunter through and through, and 95% of the time I have a Bow in my hand. And it’s what I do prefer overall… But they do have a three day Black Powder Special that starts Thursday, and runs to Saturday. It’s just usually a good opportunity since no ones been blasting the woods around me already this year, and is probably one of the best chances to put some Venison in the freezer. And does extend one’s range a bit further then the Bow. Though not as enjoyable to me. … They do have a week of Doe only the following week with Black Powder, but I usually just take the Bow most times then. But then it’s back to Bow only during the Rut, which is the best time for me to be in the woods. - The Saturday after Thanksgiving starts two weeks of Shotgun, then two weeks of Black Powder again, and I pretty much lose my desire to get out much once the blasting starts. Plus the Deer are not as mobile in the daylight after 4 weeks of bullets flying around. Can’t blame them. :slight_smile:

#62

Well, decided to just break today to not deal with all the craziness later this week. Plus, speaking with the Wife last night, I thought it might be easier to just plan to eat something today. …Since she knew I wasn’t eating, my Son decided he wasn’t eating last night either, so she refused to take anything out. But then got a little hungry later last night. Said she didn’t want to take something out just for herself, since no one else was eating. - So I took her down in the basement and picked out some Top Sirloin to drop into the Sous Vide for dinner tonight. Plus, she also reminded me I still had some lunch meat to eat that we picked up, and of course things she doesn’t eat.

I told her it wasn’t a problem, and that it’s still pretty much 3 days, or 72 hrs. so that works and it’s still a nice Fast. Plus, I can eat the Olive Loaf, Hot Pepper Cheese, Hard Salami, etc. for lunch to make sure it’s eaten. (She did say she ate the rest of the Black Forest Ham for lunch, but there wasn’t a whole lot, so she got hungry later on.) … But I have now done nearly 3-day Fast for the past 3 weeks, & definitely have been noticing some reduction in inflammation anyway. Mostly in my hands, since my rings won’t stay upright, and continue to spin off to the side like they are a size too big. It’s usually a sign I see if it’s one way or the other. But they do tighten up when I do a lot of work too, and at times, I can’t wear them.

Edit: to add that I broke at 71 hrs.

(Bob M) #63

Nice discussion.

I did make it 5.5 days one time, and that was a Saturday. I was planning 7 days, but I was getting dizzy when standing, so I broke the fast Saturday morning. That was a while ago, and I wonder if I did not watch my electrolytes as much back then?

#64

Yeah, we go through this from time to time. She doesn’t like pulling out something to make a full meal, when she’s the only one eating. So I do try to emphasize making some meals ahead of time, so you will always have some heat-n-eat meals if someone eats at, say, a different time, or if others are fasting. If not, most times you will just try to throw something together to suffice, which isn’t always a full meal.

But I told her no worries. Just like eating, I can Fast anytime. :slight_smile:

Ya know, I haven’t been doing any sort of electrolytes add-ins with any recent Fast. I used to make sure to supplement Sodium, Magnesium and Potassium, but not here lately. For the most part, I haven’t had any issues whatsoever. Though last night I got some very slight cramping started in my feet, but I have also been doing quite a few all-day walking/inspecting of levees, which might be coming into play?

(Butter Withaspoon) #65

I’m achieving something extra this morning- water fasting! Only the TRE usual window but for me to get up and not have a cup of tea with creamy milk, actually 2 cups of tea, is an absolute miracle! But why??

I’m waiting for a fasting blood test. Sometimes it takes a push to achieve the impossible! I was surprised how hard it was. Not sure if it’s the lack of caffeine or those few calories that is making the most difference.

But actually, if I think about it, I rode my bike here no problems and feel fine. Just missing my tea 🫖

(Butter Withaspoon) #66

Higher use of a muscle is what can occasionally give me a mild cramp. The most common scenario for me are leg cramp after an all day hike, or experiments with strength exercises. None of this is fasting more than the overnight TRE though

#67

When first starting Fasting, I would get calf cramps from time to time, and making sure to supplement Sodium, Magnesium and Potassium seemed to help some. But lately I haven’t been supplementing & not having any issues. But I did spend most of last week walking levees all day, not to mention doing some hunting, where I do walk 0.65+ miles each way, and that doesn’t count the hills. But last night it wasn’t that bad at all, more like a tease… I’m going cramp, but didn’t. And repeated a few more times.

Worst I’ve ever felt as far as cramps go, was while getting down from hunting stand, when it felt like King Kong grabbed me around the stomach/waist and was squeezing as hard as possible. Wasn’t sure if I was going to black out, pass out, or jump? - I use a two piece climber stand, where you work like a inchworm, raising the top section, and locking it on the tree just with the angle. And then you use your feet to tilt the bottom section forward and raise it, while you are basically doing using your abs to pull the bottom section up into place. … But I had a Dozen Does still feeding not 80 yards from me, so I was doing everything extremely slow, which works the muscles SO much more. :slight_smile: It’s like the bars you grip and have your forearms on, while you raise your lower half upward with weights. … I’m sure it didn’t last much more than a minute, minute in a half, but it sure felt like much longer. Didn’t help I was still 20’ up, and had to pee real bad. :smile: - I barely made it, in both aspects, but finally did get down after it finally subsided. But it did spook me quite a bit, since it was the first time I felt anything like that.

(Butter Withaspoon) #68

That’s intense Dave!! And a good story… if the hunting was productive :grin:

(Bob M) #69

Well, I made it 36 or so hours, with a work out at about 32 hours.

Unlike Dave, I had to supplement salt yesterday – a lot. Felt some cramps coming on, but did not get any. And after my workout, I drank the liquid from brined olives. Very salty. To break my fast, I started with a home-fermented pickle, also very salty. Then ate a while after that.

I’m also a “sweater”. I did some body weight exercises, then tried HIIT on my stationary bike. Had to constantly use my towel to towel off. And that’s not unusual. I always have towels near me when I exercise.

#70

I’m a huge sweater, and carry a towel with me everywhere I go. I’ve always been this way, and when I do anything with any activity, I’m usually soaked through in a short time. But I don’t mind when I work for it… just sitting around chilling, and still sweating - not fun.

(Bob M) #71

Do you think you sweat less now, after being keto for a while?

I think I do, but not as much as I would like. I’d like to get on my bike (which is in my basement, so it’s relatively cool down there), and not have to use a towel.

Anyway, I had to spray magnesium oil on my body last night, as I was having trouble getting to sleep and was “kicking” a bit. That to me means lack of electrolytes, though I’ve never been able to figure out for sure which ones.

#72

Yeah, I’d have to say I probably do sweat a little less, but still sweat. But I do find I may not heat up as fast as I did back when I was at 320. But even then I worked just as hard, but did sweat more overall I think… … Like today, woke at 4:30am to hunt. Showered and left at 5:15am since I walk the 0.65 miles to the stand, which is on the Farm just across the road from me. I still carry a towel, but a ‘brown’ one.

But it wasn’t too bad, but wish it was cooler out, which helps. … I moved one of my stands further down into the woods after I hunted the field for a couple hours. I placed it at the bottom of a creek-bed, where I see a lot of Deer come through. And though it was only a little over 60°, the direct Sun and little wind made it feel like it was in the 80’s. So yeah, I did sweat more on the way back home. It would also help if I wasn’t carrying in my gear, which I know helps with overheating too.

My sleep hasn’t been real good the past week but can’t say any one thing is the problem. I have always had this from time to time, and getting up in the middle of the night, doesn’t often mean I can get back to sleep. Might be just from years of getting little sleep overall and being used to getting up early.

#73

I took some break from being online (except chatting with 2 people and googling photos) but I am back!
I had some belly problems, the most serious in my life but it doesn’t say much as I am usually quite fine.
OMAD is very easy now but I can’t eat enough that way so sometimes TMAD pops in. I never eat until 4-5pm, it’s perfect!

I tried to make a longer fast, not ideal after multiple OMAD days and with a tender belly but what could I do? :smiley: I couldn’t. My body always want food at 5pm, I usually have no hunger or just some tiny one but I feel weaker and I know that food would help and indeed it’s the case.
Oh well. But if I can’t do EF for the monthly fast, I made my woe stricter. Only eggs and meat, tiny added fat, spice and condiment if needed.
It’s easy and great but today I went below 1200 kcal (if my guess is good enough but as I had no fatty meat with unknown macros, I think it’s accurate enough)… Just like for my “big” before-EF-attempt meal, it’s low cal (even way lower than that) and low protein (adequate. but not my normal high) so no way I will last for more then 5pm tomorrow. I am satiated now but yesterday was quite good :wink:

So I continue with my carni OMAD (with the occasional TMAD) and later relax my ways a tiny bit. I like my carnivore-ish woe, I just need to be careful not to get more and more relaxed.

I keep waiting until I can so if my body eventually will be fine with skipping a meal, I will be ready. And maybe I will make a very high-cal TMAD and try for EF right after? My meal was very well planned but I didn’t track and it wasn’t substantial enough to sustain me for long. If that is possible. But hey, I did my 120 hours with a smaller weight than I have now… Even if I am a tad more muscular, I must have more fat than I had back then… Can fasting be affected by age and woe changes…? Or if I had a very carby OMAD before - or many meals, whatever helps to ensure a high-cal day, it would be easy again with some determination? Or my body changed and it just wants its food every day, no matter what?
I very rarely did EF and most of them in my high-carb times but a few on keto (still much carbs).

We will see. I am very pleased with my zero or smaller appetite for now, I really only eat when I feel the need for it. Eating without need was my big problem until lately but it’s over, at least for a while. But a good woe and my early dinner OMAD helps with it.

(KCKO, KCFO 🥥) #74

Megan Ramos has said repeatedly that OMAD is great for maintaining but their clients never do well losing with a lot of OMAD periods. She thinks TMAD works better for most of the clients.

Another tip is after a fast, refuel for half the time you fasted. Then do another EX fast. I have had that work very well for me many times.

#75

Always made zero sense to me!
Once I met someone who massively overeat on OMAD, always. And it’s clearly starving for everyone who can’t eat a substantial meal… So why it would be maintenance? Makes no sense at all

But I don’t care anyway what is true for people in general. I know myself way better and even have experiences. I will lose wonderfully with OMAD, I just need calorie deficit to lose but that is a requirement… And carnivore OMAD is about the only way I can imagine to reach a calorie deficit longer term…
I “always” (true but I have little experience) start to lose on OMAD, right away (well if I do it for several days, I clearly can’t see anything if it was just a few days, my energy need isn’t that high. I actually don’t need it to be carnivore but carbs aren’t so great for me).
I eat way too much on TMAD so I never lose.
I probably will have 1-2 TMAD days a week as I need that to avoid undereating. I probably could eat enough on OMAD but that wouldn’t be so natural. I just want to eat and stop very naturally.

I would never even try more than one EF per month :smiley: But I probably can’t do one per year… Oh well.
But EF after EF, that always sound dangerous and unhealthy to me. Some people seem to fast as default and barely eating, that is surely not good. Well except maybe for someone very obese with good enough health and doctor supervision…?

I am fine with just OMAD, kind of… But I still want an EF at least sometimes. At least now when I have so much extra fat, no way I can’t afford it! I am curious… And I just want 48 hours, is that so much to ask? According to my body, it is. The lil stubborn spoiled ex-glutton princess.

(KCKO, KCFO 🥥) #76

Found this new video by Dr. Fung on fasting mistake that most people make.

(Bob M) #77

I just listened to this:

Three different people. The “middle” person is a woman who counsels other women. She did not like OMAD for women. Said you can’t get enough protein, I believe.

Just stop listening before you get to Phinney, otherwise you might stopping fasting altogether. :wink:

#78

Well, I still can have my few eggs with my 20+ oz meat when I mean business so I don’t worry about that :smiley: Okay, I don’t have such meals every day, far from it but my protein is usually fine, be it OMAD or not.

I blame my last low-protein (adequate but barely and I am used to high), low-calories OMAD days on my meat aversion phase. But they were single days, it’s not like I could avoid high-protein if I tried…
But we will see what future will bring :wink: I take notes, OMAD on a simple woe is so easy to track.

Obviously OMAD isn’t for everyone. Not even for me in its pure form at the moment. But it’s still new, I will change my food choices, OMAD requires a different attitude from me. I don’t need to hold back so much anymore… (I never really did, that’s why I never lost fat except in my distant past before and between keto.)

But what does it matter if someone is a woman? A man can get enough protein from a single meal? How is that logical? There are some women who can eat just fine, thank you very much :smiley: Maybe it’s some social thing I almost missed? Heard about things but they made no sense so ignored them.
But not every man eats big, protein rich meals either, far from it…

Okay I listened to her :smiley: I usually just like to read but it was easy to listen to. I am not so good with spoken English but if people talk very well, it’s fine. So I understood most.

I am so glad I don’t have those cycle things. I need the same, I feel the same all the time. My fasting clearly doesn’t show any change. But of course people in podcasts must talk to the masses, not individuals. I still dislike generalized things. We can say it’s probably this or that but it’s individual, let’s follow our body if it’s trustable and communicative enough. Flexibility, she said. I agree, it’s very important. I never know if I will need 1 or 5 meals on some future day. I can make an educated guess for the very next day because I know how I ate today, I even can make a guess for the future but that’s not as reliable all the time. Carnivore changed me, sometimes play too much with my satiation and sometimes I needed 5 meals to avoid undereating, I couldn’t help that at all.
But I have a few fixed things.

She talked about 100g protein and that women doesn’t even eat that in a normal eating window, whatever that is. Well, I probably never in my life ate so little protein longer term so it’s not about me. And most women don’t even need that much, I guess. People eat less and gain muscles. Still, it’s good to be safe especially when we eat at a deficit or want to gain muscle (or if we are very hopeful, both :D). I think I build muscle now (it would be quite hard to see but I get stronger, hopefully it means extra muscles too, not just better spirit or brain-muscle relationship or whatever, I am not knowledgeable about that).

OMAD is just eating once, it can be 2000 kcal or 4000… If one can’t eat enough in their eating window, it doesn’t matter if it’s 1 meals or 6, they should eat more, size of eating window be damned!
I wonder what she would say to women doing OMEOD :smiley: I wondered about that but my body and mind totally disagreed, I wouldn’t even try it. But it seems OMAD will be enough as long as I am strict enough with my food items to avoid eating too much. I have extra fat, the thin young active women she talked about, with their different past, abilities and goals may need something else, sure. But some of them probably are happy with their OMAD… I wouldn’t advise EF for them as they lack the fat reserves and probably would need it (but if they are smart and flexible, they would stop when their body would tell them that’s it) but OMAD sounds okay. But maybe not for a thin one, I don’t know. But I would expect a healthy body to fend for itself for 23 hours even without extra fat… Not in every cases but some…? Oh well, I don 't need to know that. Just that I go for OMAD as TMAD definitely doesn’t work well enough. It’s great for maintenance but I need to lose a lot of fat and 8-9 years was more than enough waiting especially with my stress gain a year ago. I very much dislike that.
And almost anything is great for maintenance for me. I am super good at stalling (that’s why the stress gain was shocking). I do almost anything and I stall (except now that I gain muscles, slowly but I do, I appreciate every micrograms!).

I’m sorry. I will take out the wifi card from my computer again. Writing instead of sleeping…

#79

Presently at 24.5 hrs. - I left work a couple hours early today due to a headache, but think it may have been the smell of the spraying they did recently around our office. (At least it didn’t help) But my neck is also bothering me too being stiff on the right side which I think is from the night air flowing on it all night. We’ve been keeping the window open at night and it’s only been in the 50’s. … The spray was herbicide for week control, mostly down where I was walking today. 15 minute stroll this morning just to loosen up slightly sore legs from Hunting excursions, and then did another 30 minute walk around lunch or so.

(Bob M) #80

I thought the same thing. The woman is coming out with a book, though. It’s her ideas for intermittent fasting for women. It might be an interesting read, as she does counsel quite a few women.

I personally have a hard time with OMAD, but I could do something like eat within a short window of say 4 hours or so. But I don’t, mainly because I get hungry early and because I can’t really eat when I’d like, which is say 2-6pm. I often have to eat much later.