November IF/EF chat, all welcome!

(Doug) #262

Back on the Fasting Horse; been too long. April --> September, scared by diabetes diagnosis, did pretty well with ketogenic eating and fasting. Then let off on it all, gained 6 lbs. from Sept. to Oct., and have made no net progress since. Job schedule and pressure, and Thanksgiving = I just threw in the towel.

Being “keto forever” is going to be a real struggle for me, though it sure looks like that’s what I should do, or close enough to avoid the metabolic/health pitfalls of being too far away too often. There is no “curing” me, after which I’d be able to go back to the old excesses.

Have never fasted for more than 5.5 days, though never have hit any really bad symptoms or discomfort. Well, there’s 14 hours under my belt already now, along with a goodly store of fat.

(*Rusty* Instagram: @Rustyk61) #263

Keep it up buddy!

(Dawn) #264

14 hours! WOOT-WOOT. Great job. Well I am fasting as well, so let’s keep each other company. What is your goal with this fast? You will easily get those 6 pounds off if you go long enough. My fast is open. I hope to make it around 10 days. I don’t really want to go a full 14 days again, but I will if that is what it takes.

(Doug) #265

Liz, I scoured the internet for a couple hours this morning, trying to nail that down. Saw a lot of fascinating ideas and concepts, but there is a real shortage of definitive information on human autophagy. A mouse will be dead in 2 or 3 days if it doesn’t eat; obviously humans are massively different. Studies are costly, and I guess there isn’t much money in people eating and buying less.

One thing that strikes me today is that some important benefits of fasting - and things attributed to autophagy - occur upon starting to eat again, or “refeeding.” There obviously has to be a period of fasting to set this up - and perhaps it’s some small number of days. I’d think there will be individual variation here, in how responsive a person is to the process, how much glycogen, etc., is stored in their liver and other body parts, and so forth. The good news is that it doesn’t matter too much that we cannot pinpoint one’s “peak” for autophagy, short of intensive testing of blood and tissue, as there are benefits regardless of the exact duration, just as there are health benefits for most of us in missing even just one meal, or eating one meal per day.

There are different phases and functions with autophagy - I picture it like multiple sine waves - and they won’t all have their peak at the same time. The extra and damaged molecules (primarily proteins) within a cell start to be cleaned up first, then damaged or unneeded larger parts of the cell itself, and still later liquid droplets within the cell. These phases overlap, and the insulin/glucagon concentrations affect the timing of them, thus some individual variation will be present there too. For many of us, years of eating polyunsaturated vegetable oils have clogged cells with droplets of them, messing up the way the cell works. That working on the liquid droplets is the last phase of autophagy to begin, argues fairly strongly for longer fasts rather than shorter, in my opinion.

The benefits of fasting and autophagy are very cumulative - repeated cycles of fasting and refeeding give more and deeper changes for good than does one cycle, regardless of the length of that cycle.

For human growth hormone secretion, free fatty acids in the blood tend to suppress HGH secretion. This is already a long post, and I’m trying not to load it up with links, but I quote from the one study I will link to: “Free fatty acid lack itself seems to be the signal for HGH release…” In the study, lowering free fatty acid levels resulted in an increase in HGH, with a lag time of two hours.

(Liz ) #266

FASCINATING!! Thanks so much for all that information! I’m encouraged to Keep Calm and Fast On

(Doug) #267

Hey Dawn. :slightly_smiling_face: I’m open here too - don’t have any certain time length or goal in mind. Even though I probably only ate 1/3 the carbohydrates of the Thanksgiving holiday this time around, compared to what I used to do, it was still a lot, and so reversing the damage/consequences of the past couple weeks is one intent.

6 days would be a new record for me, so want to do at least that long. 12 days from now is my employer’s holiday party, and if I go to that I wouldn’t want to do it coming off fasting without at least one day of adjustment to food, so that would be ending at 11 days. Best that I don’t go to the party - no realistic nor palatable way I can forgo the booze there - and that means carbs and probably at least a one-day mini carb binge on the accompanying food. So, as of now I’m not going.

Back to the doctor December 18, to get checked for A1C. April was 7.3% and the alarms went off for Type 2 Diabetes. August was 5.7, all the way down to the bottom of the “pre-diabetic” range; doctor was impressed. Would hate to be going back up, but no question I’ve hurt myself there lately. A 22 day fast would take me all the way to the test. :grin: See what happens…

(Doug) #268

Right on, Liz - I think this is it! Extended fasting is not for everybody, and at some point I guess the “too much of a good thing” deal would start to apply, but as individuals we may really surprise ourselves.

(Dawn) #269

I am 100% here for you buddy. Thanks to @4dml for helping me through my first extended fast. I want to be that support for someone else. So I will check on ya’ daily until you decide to start eating again. I would agree, DO NOT fast up until the party. But I would hate to see you miss such an important event too. Can you possibly just fast up until 1-2 days before the party, do a careful refeed then prepare yourself to only have keto low carb drinks at the party?

And one more thing, I went to a party and didn’t eat a thing because I ate a HUGE bowl of keto chili before attending the party. Once my belly was full, I just wasn’t interested in the carby foods. I also took some macadamia nuts with me in my purse. Maybe not the classiest thing, but it helped keep me keto =0)

So maybe fast for 10 days with a 3 day refeed (attend the party), then start a brand new fast after the party with a 7 day fast all the way up to your Dr appointment. That’s an idea…

(Doug) #270

Thanks, Dawn. I’ve done about 12 fasts this year, from 3 to 5.5 days long - should be no problems this week. :slightly_smiling_face: Low-carb drinks at the party - not going to happen, all they give away is wine and beer - for hard liquor you have to go downstairs to the bar and pay for it. On eating before going to the party, well, they’re having prime rib and I’d hate to miss any of that…

I could take it easy or even totally abstain from the booze, and just have a couple good hits of beef, but to me the urge to “party” is strong enough that such plans have a very low chance of success. The real challenge is “Am I making a lifestyle change or not?”

You’ve got an ambitious path for yourself the rest of this year, and good luck to you there. :sunglasses: I got one-third through my overall planned weight loss, and found that things are not nearly as easy as at the beginning. Less body fat to draw on and perhaps some adaptation and adjustment. No big surprise but there’s definitely an increased need to stay with the program now.

In our fasting journeys, one thing that has really helped me is coming to this forum and reading or talking with other people. Hunger hormones aren’t steady, they rise and fall several times during the day - I think there are usually about 8 peaks - so the duration is not all that long. Distract ourselves for a bit, here, and the hunger passes. Or perhaps it’s focusing on other people’s similar concerns, driving home the big picture mentality - hey, we’re in it for the long haul. Calm is a good state to be keeping.

Cheers,

Doug

(Dawn) #271

Just realized that you are also in Atlanta! YAY…so am I. Can you suggest a “keto friendly” Dr. in the area?

Yep, I fully agree. Let’ just keep calm and fast on…

(Doug) #272

Dawn, I live in Midtown Atlanta, but work for a West Virginia headquartered company, with worksites being all over the U.S. Rarely at home, and my doctors/dentist are in WV. Good question about keto-friendly doctors, but sad to say I’ve never been to any doctors in Georgia, period.

https://ketogenic.com/tools/keto-clinicians-finder/

I looked at this site, but see only a couple north-northeast of Atlanta, and only one right in it…

(Dawn) #273

Thanks for this List!!! Found one about three blocks from my office in Alpharetta. GREAT. Thanks Doug! :star_struck:

(Kell) #274

Hi - mind if I lurk a bit? I’m new here and to all of this. First day 16:8 - so far so good! :smiley:

(Liz ) #275

Welcome aboard!

#276

Hi everyone. Not a lot of fasting last week. I’m back on board with 20:4 warrior fasts during this work week. Even though I am at goal weight I think I am still losing inches by the way my pants are fitting.

For Thanksgiving I cooked for my 84-y/o mother. Her doctor put her on a low carb eating plan to control cholesterol. (!!!) In all events, I kept it LCHF. I blew through four sticks of butter in one meal. My favorite was the sauteed chicken livers with mushrooms and green onions. Actually, I could have stopped right there and the meal would be a success.

#277

Second day of 20:4 warrior fasting this week. So far so good.

(KCKO, KCFO) #278

Going to fast for a while. Not sure how long. Just want to do a few days. I bounced to my goal weight today, haven’t been here in a while, I have been staying below that weight. So the scale is my motivation this morning.

I’m pretty stressed these days, we are doing major work on our house and so many projects at one time is taking its toll. I know these are good things to be stressed about but I find it very stressful, I think this is why I got this bounce up. I have been eating like a normally do without bouncing this high for months now.

Decided it would be coffee with coconut oil and broth if needed. I’m out of macadamia nuts, so liquids it will be. According to Richard’s calculator, I do need 42 grams of dietary fat supplementation. I had a teaspoon of coconut oil in my coffee so far today.

I see a few others are also fasting again. So I’m joining the party :dancer:t2::man_dancing:t2:

(*Rusty* Instagram: @Rustyk61) #279

Well, I just past hour 67. I need some salt. And it’s helping that we are super busy in the Jail today.

(Donna ) #280

I’m at 24 hours fasting and want to go as long as my body wants to do it. Hopefully, a few days.

I’ve managed to stay within 1 lb of my lowest fasting weight from the 7 1/2 day EF right before Thanksgiving. I’d like to go below that and make a new, lower weight, stick.

I started strict Keto and IF/EF on October 2nd, at 194 lbs. I’m now down 22 lbs, at 172. My goal weight is 155 lbs. I’m 5’6" tall and 48 years old. I was low carb already, for 4 1/2 years, before going Keto and IF/EF.

I ordered some C8 MCT oil last night. I’m just trying it out, going to see if it makes me feel any better than I already feel (which is pretty darn good.)

(*Rusty* Instagram: @Rustyk61) #281

So I’m sitting at 74 1/2 hours and feel great. I’m not stopping. Had a really rough day at work in the jail but grabbed some salt and sucked it up. I’m going to continue until the 96 hour mark.