New(ish) and Now Struggling

#122

No you are not doing what I suggested. Well, you are doing part of it but not the other. You are still looking to find blame, evidence of wrongdoing, proving this wont work. I am not saying it all be easy but throwing the tracking out the window (as long as you are confident about keeping carbs low and protein moderate without tracking) and really eating with awareness and mindfulness I think will start reaping rewards. Stop trying so hard to figure everything out and make it work like now! It likely wont work NOW and is going to take some time and patience.

I am more than happy to work out a sensible plan of attack and approach which encompasses way more than just food that you consume but you have to meet me half way. Have a think about it. I really must head out now as I am procrastinating about doing some work I do not want to do but I will check in later. We can try and hash out a plan here or in a message or not at all. Over to you.

Where are you in the UK BTW?

Think also about anything and everything ELSE that could be impacting. You have mentioned anxiety. What else?

  • depressive disorders
  • adrenal fatigue
  • existing blood test history - anything there?
  • sleep patterns
  • stress patterns at home, work, socially
  • exercise
  • what actual weight are you? how much to lose?
  • and so onā€¦

I suspect that the root cause is in your brain (at least most of it) so when you react physically, you soothe the pain (like with a pain killer) but if you donā€™t address the root cause, that pain will just flare back up again pretty quickly. And yeah I know - armchair psychology right? Right but I do also speak from personal experience and a lot of what you say sounds very familiar. I am not saying I am right in your case but wouldnā€™t it be worth considering as an option?

(Lauren Casapulla) #123

Ignore the ā€œfeel satedā€ deal. Stick to the practice of under eating your fat macros slightly most days. If our appetites were able to bring satiety in a healthful fashion, we wouldnā€™t be in this fix. LOL.

Maybe appetites normalize for some folks on some types of healthful foods and not for others. For example, Iā€™ll feel satiety with steak after about 4 or 5 ounces, but I can eat a whole pound of lebni (a sort of yogurt-like smooth cheese) as I proved last night during the approach to shark week.

(Martin Arnold) #124

I consider everything that people say, but whether i ultimately agree with it is another matter.

If you have a plan then I will certainly look at it.

Iā€™m in the SW UK.

So far my blood tests have shown nothing untoward. I was last tested on Friday so the results should be forthcoming. My sleep is diminished, largely because of night time cravings. These things cause stress. I donā€™t do much physical exercise beyond about half an hours light walking a day. I was waiting for fat adaption to kick in before starting anything of. That doesnā€™t seem to have happened however.

Iā€™m not saying these issues are not psychosomatic, I simply donā€™t know. But my feeling is that is a bit of an easy answer. I think itā€™s a little to easy to just say that and without any real evidence it gets me no further along. I also think that given the profoundly physical nature of the effects and the severity that it is more than just stress. Waking up two hours later with ravenous hunger accompanied by a vrey visceral sensation is, IMO, physical.

(Martin Arnold) #125

Youā€™re suggesting eating less fat?

(Martin Arnold) #126

The 30g protein thing comes from here:

(Michelle) #127

May I ask why you are trying to stick to a ketogenic way of eating even though you donā€™t like it? Life is too short to not have a way of eating that suits you. If Keto is not it, then please, find something you do like and also likes you back.

(Martin Arnold) #128

because i believe myself to be carb sensitive and it is meant to be an effective weight loss mechanism. I have lost some weight as well.

This diet is only problematic now because of this unresolved hunger issue. For the first couple of weeks I was sated after my meals. Why that has changed is the issue.

(Michelle) #129

So, just go low carb then. Donā€™t worry about fat adaptation, keto, or having to worry so much about fat/protein ratios. Just eat low carb and fill yourself with protein and some fat (to your liking).

Too much protein will keep you in a glucose burning state. This may be preventing you from becoming fat adapted anyway (worrying too much about getting protein grams). So, do away with keto and just go low carb. You will still see benefits if you are carb sensitive.

(Martin Arnold) #130

It has been suggested that iā€™ve been eating too much protein so today iā€™m trying a smaller amount.

But how much protein is too much?

Itā€™s not the fat adaptation element that is the issue right now, itā€™s the hunger cravings. That is what I have been trying to address. I could well have those problems if i stuck with low carb and not keto. But the two are synonymous, depending on what you call low carb. I have no great issue with the idea of keto low carb other than to ensure i get enough nutrients

(Michelle) #131

For me, too much protein would be the amount that kicks me out of ketosis. For you, I have no idea,

#132

@ketoisland has a nice summary of all the different expert opinions on protein, but the common recommended range is 0.7 grams to 1.5 grams per kilogram of lean body mass. However, there are people consuming far more than that and still in ketosis while others consume far less; more than about 1.0 grams per kilogram of LBM is too much for me personally on a regular basis.

(Martin Arnold) #133

What is that amount for you?

(Martin Arnold) #134

In the podcast discussing protein, they refer to the macro calculator i used. That gives me a default protein intake of 104g/day (1.8 x LBM).

Thereā€™s a very large range between .7 and 1.5 times.

Protein canā€™t be the issue for me if Iā€™m still in ketosis, and, while the pee sticks arenā€™t ideal, they show me that iā€™m producing them, and passing them.

So I canā€™t have exceeded the protein intake threshold for glucose, surely?

Therefore is fat the culprit? Having looked at Atkins (or at least the 2002 version I found online), his sample meals arenā€™t dripping in additional fats and sauces, there are no fatbombs nor bulletproof coffee etc. So perhaps I shouldnā€™t be adding all this extra stuff, just eating regular food with the fat and not the low fat/processed rubbish.

Clearly something, in what iā€™ve been eating (or lacking from it) is invoking this hunger and preventing satiety between meals. It may also inhibit fat adaptation.

(bulkbiker) #135

and therein lies your problemā€¦
You come and ask for advice ignore it and then wonder why people get pissed off, you then blame the diet that you arenā€™t following.
Iā€™m guessing you are also ā€œghost_whistlerā€ on diabetes.co.uk if not you have a twinā€¦

(Martin Arnold) #136

I think youā€™ve completely misrepresented me here. All Iā€™m saying is that I will listen to what someone says, but I am not going to commit to agreeing with them just because.

If someone has something to say, Iā€™ll listen. I canā€™t say fairer than that surely?

In what way am I not following the diet? If youā€™re going to criticise me, itā€™s only fair you back up what you say.

(eat more) #137

THIS is the problem!
r/keto is deficit/calorie/starvation/scale obsessedā€¦this forum is science obsessed :blush:

iā€™m female and youā€™ve got me by a good 50lbs (and i have presumably less body fat) and i eat MORE than you doā€¦at a moderate deficit

forget everything you ā€œlearnedā€ on r/keto

read, watch, and listen to the resources providedā€¦

recalculate your macros without a deficit (and not a sedentary activity level if you are NOT sedentary)

be creative with fatā€¦you donā€™t have to drown your food in oils or butter or spend loads of money to get fat in

and FFS eat!

you arenā€™t a mutant that keto doesnā€™t work forā€¦youā€™re not fat adapted and starvingā€¦no wonder youā€™re hungry

i repeat forget everything you ā€œlearnedā€ at r/keto and EAT

(Lauren Casapulla) #138

Eat up to or less than your fat macros if you need to burn body fat. Not simply ā€œeat less fat.ā€

(Lauren Casapulla) #139

Excess protein wonā€™t kick you out of ketosis.

(Martin Arnold) #140

Hereā€™s what i eat:
Breakfast - avocado, kale, sausages, bacon/pork slice.

Lunch - spinach, grated cheese, nuts, sliced meat (pork or sausages depending on what I didnā€™t eat for breakfast, possibly even a chicken thigh), some EVOO

Dinner - pork chop, chicken leg, venison burger, broccoli, spinach, cauliflower.

I donā€™t know what more to add. This is what the calculator says at a 0% deficit:

Generated by Keto Calculator 9.12

43/M/5ā€™6" | CW 183 | 29.3% BF | Custom expenditure: 1990 kcal

  • 1990 kcal Goal, a 0% deficit. (766 min, 1990 max)
  • 20g Carbohydrates
  • 104g Protein (78g min, 129g max)
  • 166g Fat (30g min, 166g max)
(Martin Arnold) #141

Right now I want to not be hungry all the time