New(ish) and Now Struggling

(Martin Arnold) #142

Surely if it will if it causes glucose production, isn’t that why it’s contraindicated?

#143

Whether or not excess protein will kick someone out of ketosis has not been settled and is controversial at best and I don’t consider it to be good advice telling someone that it won’t have an effect, especially since the definition of “excess” will vary greatly from person to person and based on different circumstances for the same person over time.

I know for a fact that I cannot eat a lean steak for dinner and still be in ketosis the next morning, whatever the mechanism, the result is that I cannot eat protein without considering how it will impact staying in ketosis.

(eat more) #144

eggs
olives
fat bombs
coconut oil
heavy whipping cream
cream cheese
nut butters

i have NO problem reaching my fat target

your calculator report says 5% deficit it did when i wrote the post :thinking:

from a diff calculator (there are many methods)…note the 30% which is too much of a deficit in my opinion is closer to what your calculator’s result shows
this was generated with your stats and “moderately active” activity level

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(Martin Arnold) #145

So these calculators don’t even agree.

You’re also assuming that 1003g protein isn’t too high either.

186g of fat is something I would struggle with, I know that people on here think that’s ridiculous, but there it is. It’s not so much fatphobia as a practical response. I simply don’t have that much fat in the house (and I don’t get on with eggs at all).

I’ve just had a venison burger cooked in butter with the remains of a pot of cream (about 100ml or so). Another coconut oil drink and that is going to be all I think i can scrape by at the moment. Surely that’s enough. I calculate that at about 130-140g fat.

(eat more) #146

well everyone has tried to help. provided resources and advice but you keep coming up with road blocks…
i don’t see how you can say that keto doesn’t work or complain that you’re hungry if you aren’t open to information
…if you knew better you wouldn’t be here…or maybe you’re just bored

it’s the simplest way i’ve ever eaten but i don’t create obstacles for myself

best of luck

ps venison is one of the lowest fat meats so you could eat higher fat

(Martin Arnold) #147

I appreciate the help, I just struggle with the fat. That’s all. I’ve had days where i’ve eaten a lot of fat, maybe not 186g worth, but it’s not made any difference.

From what i’ve calculated i’ve eaten about 150g fat today already. I’m having another coconut oil and peppermint tea.

I haven’t said keto doesn’t work; obviously it does for plenty of people. For myself, however, I don’t know what’s happening. If it works for you, then that’s great. I’m not trying to take that away.

Surely you see though that with calculators that give different results, there’s a problem. Some people don’t even like them in the first place.

I fried the burger (about 170g) in 24g of butter as well.

(eat more) #148

to summarize:
(when you’re open to it…)
you aren’t eating enough
you aren’t eating enough fat
you’re hung up on old thinking, bad advice,and numbers
if you’re hungry eat
if you’re hungry eat fat

(Martin Arnold) #149

If I feel hungry later I will eat a couple of sausages and an avocado. That should be another 30g fat right there.

I don’t have enough else in the house right now.

That should bring me up to 186g.

You say I’m not eating enough, as well as not eating enough fat, what do you mean? I’m getting enough of the other macro nutrients surely?

#150

I was offering to help you directly. I do not have ‘a plan’.

It is not an easy answer because I was pretty confident you would not be willing to take it on board because that is the harder option in a lot of ways. Psychosomatic IS physical. It IS very real but it wont ultimately be solved with a purely physical response. That is what I am saying. There is not really a good reason for you to wake up ravenously hungry after eating what people eat on keto unless you are eating a tiny amount so maybe there is more to it. That is what I am saying.

If you want help with trying to approach it this way, give me a shout. I am not going to spend a shit load of time laying out a plan that you might or might not deign look at however.

(eat more) #151

based on your previous posts with r/keto macros and calories that are too great of a deficit

i think you shouldn’t worry about a deficit until you are fat adapted and supplementing what goes in your mouth with what’s already on your body

you still need adequate protein
.8-1.5g of protein per pound of lean body mass is the generally accepted standard

(Martin Arnold) #152

Ok, what do you have in mind then?:slight_smile:

I have taken your suggestion on board. I just don’t know how it can be validated.

I’ve already said I’ll look at and listen to everything people suggest.

(Martin Arnold) #153

That’s what i’ve eaten

(eat more) #154

dear lord…
did you look at any of the links, articles, or ppl here? you’ll follow r/keto blindly tho?

now i just think you’re messing around…i didn’t want to think that or deny someone that was genuinely struggling help but FFS

#155

TBH if you are really going to struggle with fat. If the fattier options are not for you - cheese, fatty meats, fatty cold cuts like salami, nuts like macadamias, butter on veg, and so on. Maybe keto is not going to be for you. Although you don;t need to chuck fat at everything you do need to like it. Once you get to maintenance you really will have to eat a minimum amount to get the energy you need.

It is not making sense that you are so very hungry so maybe there is another reason - maybe only just in part, but still there. If you have experienced a lot of stress your cortisol response may have got a bit out of whack. Maybe you are heading towards adrenal fatigue? Maybe you have some kind of issue with not wanting this to work at a deep level and so are trying to sabotage it. There are so many possibilities and you have to start somewhere. You can work on the purely physical side and experiment with different things. Take a systematic approach and give each variable a set time frame - say a week or two - and journal what happens.

Nobody can guarantee any suggestion will work for you. All we can do is offer you things to explore and then it is over to you to be open to trying them and give them a fair go.

I have already outlined what I think would be a way forward in my first comment. I would build on what I said there.

(Martin Arnold) #156

What?

The claim is that the problem i’m having is psychosomatic. All I said was that I don’t know how that could be validated.

NO i didn’t accept what r/keto said blindly. However they are as sincere in their claims as you are. You don’t like them, that’s fine, but that doesn’t automatically mean they are wrong. I went to reddit first because i was familiar with reddit. I had never heard of this site until i started googling. It’s not a question of taking sides.

The only links that have been posted here are to the podcast. I listened to the episode that was linked, it didn’t discuss this issue. It mentioned a few things that i thought were interesting which I subsequently brought up. I also listend to the protein episode as well. So no, I haven’t listened to every one of their 50 odd hour long podcasts, nor have i watched every single other youtube clip on keto, nor do i own every book, nor have ai read every article. I’ve read some, watched some, and done my best. Ok?

(Martin Arnold) #157

I’m not suggesting anyone can guarantee anything. I’m accepting your offer of help. I haven’t dismissed your notion that these issues might be psychosomatic - they could be anything for all I know - all I’msaying is that I’m not prepared to simply accept that for the sake of accepting it. I think we need more to go on before ruling out a physical component. I think it would be irresponsible just to accept something because it was offered. That’s not being ungrateful and it’s not dissmissing it, it’s just being pragmatic.

#158

I’m not saying it is physical at least in part too. I doubt there is one reason only. It is much more likely that there are multiple factors at play. Have a look at my original comment way up the top.

(Martin Arnold) #159

You mean this:

#160

THis ^^^

(Martin Arnold) #161

Ok, so to be clear: you think i should not care how much protein i eat, for example, just eat till full?

Sure sounds good, thank you.