It seriously sounds like you’re afraid of fat and still trying to unconsciously minimise it. I think it’s the same for everyone who starts keto. We don’t spend nearly enough time talking about the fear of fat. Do what it takes to get over the fear of fat. When keto, you add fat to everything. There’s nothing you can’t add more fat to. If it’s too runny add seeds, almond meal or sour-cream.
Here’s an idea. Melt cheese on top of the chicken. Then scoop sour cream on top of that. Add a scoop of hemp seeds on top of that. Then some butter-fried haloumi on the side. Pour more melted butter over that. Add some deep fried bacon fat. Put the whole lot on toasted high-fat keto bread (cloud, oopsie, etc). Some macadamia nuts on the side. And then a chia pudding with high fat yoghurt for dessert… with 5 blueberries
You’ll know when you are keto-adapted because all that will sound delicious.
But i am struggling to know what else to add. You don’t want the meal to become sickly.
I just had some cream and, sort of, a cheese and butter sandwich. I say sort of because i softened it in the microwave and wrapped it in some lettuce. Maybe that’s cheating. I chickened out of eating all the butter though. That is something i struggle to get used to.
And that may sound delicious, but doesn’t that exceed the daily amount? I’m meant to have a macro of 140g.
That’s not much. 110g of fat is 990 calories. If that’s an 80% fat diet, your total calories is 1237, which is considered an extreme calorie deficit. The average recommend calorie intake for men is 2500 to 2700.
I don’t understand that figure. At 82kg you’re more likely to have an ideal minimum fat macro of 200g. Also 110g is less than your own target, so that clearly explains your hunger.
It’s carbs and protein you need to restrict, not fat. Eat fat to satiety and the intake will take care of itself. Erring on the side of too much fat is a much much much better idea than trying to perfectly hit your target. It’s your mind that needs to adjust to this. It’s a totally foreign idea to most of us.
Even if maintenance is 2000 for you, you said your current intake is around (110g) 990 calories of fat of a 1200 calorie diet (assuming 80% fat). Which means you could safely DOUBLE your daily intake of fat and only slightly exceed a conservative calorie intake estimate.
I’m not a good person to ask. I had gastric sleeve in 2010. Once I get started, it is hard for me to even want to eat. I have my BPC in the morning, don’t eat until 1 or so - and one meal will do me. That being said - the reason I get like that isn’t just because of the surgery, that just keeps me from being able to eat a lot, but the amount of fat I eat keeps me satisfied, so I guess that would be the answer - it keeps me sated for hours!
You should not have a deficit at all while you are adapting. Why are you targeting weight loss and adaptation simultaneously? The process is to adapt to keto and then target weight loss. There’s many very good reasons for this. good luck
I wasn’t aware the two were mutually exclusive. I have never heard this mentioned as an issue before. So: Based on your inputs, we suggest you eat: 1852 calories. From those, 149g fats, 20g net carbs, and 108g protein
They are. It’s really important not to go into deficit if you are still hungry between meals. I’ve heard this advice from:
Stephen Phinney
Ron Rosedale
Jimmy Moore
The Keto Dudes
Stephanie Ketoperson
Do it your own way of course but the repeating theme here is that you are trying to minimise your fat intake on a diet that is about MAXIMISING your fat intake. As you become better adapted and lose weight you will need to INCREASE your fat intake. So I hope you are mentally preparing for that also.
I consider a 600 cal deficit quite large. That’s 5 tablespoons of butter. When you are adapting to keto you would choose “maintain” on that calculator until you are regularly not getting the hungers you’ve been describing.
The reason is because you are still adapting to burning fat. So lowering your fat intake too far actually hinders your adaptation phase. The best strategy is to get your body into a ketogenic state by giving it the correct amount of fat. Like I said, erring on the side of too much if you’re still hungry. That way your body becomes an efficient fat burning machine.
Again, do it your own way but at least try what is being universally recommended to you by everyone here before you give up on the diet. I recognise what you’re going through and I think most people who’ve been keotgenic for some time do also. It’s a phase of worrying about calories in - calories out. And who can blame you. We all go through it. But then you get to a point of trusting yourself and your hunger. Beginning by denying your natural hunger because you’re trying to minimise fat is not really sustainable. Good luck whatever you decide.
I’ve been following this and I generally agree with @yogipete, so the answer is another question, “were you hungry after eating that meal?”.
In general, “fat” is one of the cheapest sources of calories since the world is so fat-phobic, but I can see that getting it from fatty meat can cost more which is why people recommend pure fat sources like butter.
One of the biggest drivers of satiety is dietary fat which triggers the release of cholecystokinin (CCK) (an incretin) by the enterocytes in the gastrointestinal lining and the point we’re making is that if someone still feels hungry after eating a meal, there’s either not enough fat in the meal to raise CCK, or there are other confounders such as problems in ghrelin levels, but the simplest thing to do is just add more fat until hunger subsides.
For example, last night I had a meal that was low in carbs, moderate protein and high fat, but I was still hungry!
I ended up adding 3 tablespoons of Mark Sisson’s Primal Avocado Mayonnaise until I felt like I had enough which is nearly 100% fat according to the label. Sometimes in similar situations eat tablespoons of Kerrygold butter or sour cream or coconut oil or even drink heavy whipping cream from the carton! Others report using “fat bombs” that have been prepared in advance like @Brenda’s famous candies in another thread.
On a ketogenic diet, once fat-adapted, the brain is running mostly on ketones which are generated from fat and most of the body, such as the muscles are running on fatty acids directly (sparing ketones for the brain and heart that love them), so fat is far and away the largest source of energy. This fat can come from bodyfat and/or dietary fat.
In the early stages when starting keto, most people come to this with some metabolic derangement which means that they aren’t adequately accessing bodyfat which means that ketogenesis (generating ketones in the liver from fatty acids) needs a reliable and substantial source of fat for adaptation to take place which is why calorie restriction can be problematic and the advice is to eat a lot of fat.
After adaptation is complete, then it makes sense to slowly reduce fat while considering satiety and other indications of ketosis.
There ya go @BillJay, being all awesome again. I actually follow your plan exactly as you wrote it, and it is how adaptation worked for me, and it is how I manage my diet now.
It wasn’t so easy in the beginning though. All these things take time @Martin_Arnold and incredible patience. Stay the course. If you want this you can have it. My KetoCandies are very high fat and contain no artificial sweeteners. Be kind to yourself and keep a few around.
I’m not sure what is going on at this point. I’m wondering if this is even healthy for me and that I might be someone with a physiology that contraindicates keto.
For breakfast today: 30g butter frying 50g bacon, 150g pork slices, 50g avocado and some kale.
All that was left was a couple of grams of fat rolling around the plate. I calculate that at nearly 60g fat.
Yet for the remainder of the morning I experienced a lot of very intense cravings; my stomach felt really empty like it hadn’t seen food in months, i could really feel my heart beat, and when i inhaled it was heavy - almost like being full and heavy.
I have also read that one should eat 30g at least in protein each sitting, in order to gain maximum benefit. I don’t remember the science, but if anyone understands and knows what I mean can they care to comment?
