New(ish) and Now Struggling


(Meeping up the Science!) #21

Any time you are unable to eat you will be in ketosis and utilizing GNG. One big example? Sleeping. You can’t eat whilst sleeping, so how does your body get energy? The brain is still quite active during sleep. Well, this is how. :slight_smile:

People who are unaware have no clue.


(Meeping up the Science!) #22

Eat more, particularly fat as others have mentioned. I was starving when I switched to adaption. It happens. Your body is still going “holy crap where’s the glucose?” This will gradually decrease. Just eat, preferably fat.

Also increase electrolytes, including calcium and sodium. This will help feeling unwell.

As for breakfast, my stomach hates it, so I never eat it. I am unsure about woozy after breakfast, though it sounds almost like reactive hypoglycemia. That, too, will adjust in time.


(Meeping up the Science!) #23

Protein and fat are the most satiating macronutrients, and fat the most of all. Protein and fat are pretty close, generally, but fat will always increase satiety more than anything else.

Protein mechanically keeps the stomach from emptying, and fat chemically causes satiety. There is a complex mechanism at hand here. This is, in part, why weight loss diets, particularly for surgery, are all very high protein - it literally can’t easily leave the stomach, whereas carbohydrate breezes on by ASAP.

Part of the hunger you are feeling is that, because of this, you are not yet absorbing nutrients. When you eat carbohydrate digestion begins in the mouth, actually. With protein and fat, it cannot be broken down until it reaches the stomach. Since you aren’t using ketones as efficiently yet, likely you are still “full,” but your body is sending chemical messages to eat since there is no glucose. Fat will help with this, somewhat.


(Martin Arnold) #24

I don’t think it’s hypoglycemia, that’s usually kicks in later when the sugar runs out. I experienced lows before i cut out the carbs - that’s why i chose this. I checked my BS and it wasn’t that low.

It may be a fasting reaction to eating a large meal or something. I don’t really know.

Or it could be i have a very stupid metabolism.

I keep on top of my electrolytes by supplementing magnesium and adding table salt to water throughout the day. I hopefully get enough potassium in the veg.

When I say woozy, I mean feeling a little sluggish and being ‘aware’ of what my stomach is doing. it’s only really breakfast that’s like this.

I hope i can reach this nirvana of fat adapted as it sounds amazing. I’ve been doing this 4 weeks. Hopefully it won’t take much longer! Roughly how long should it ‘normally’ take (and while you’re at it, can you tell me how long a piece of string is? :smiley: )


(Meeping up the Science!) #25

Calcium is an electrolyte, too. If muscle cramps continue, many take a small dose daily.

Fat adaption takes about 2-3 months I think; however you should be in ketosis after 1-2 weeks at most.

If you are sluggish and aware of what your stomach is doing that’s normal. Woozy usually means dizzy so I was not sure. :slight_smile:


(Stickin' with mammoth) #26

You can get reactive hypoglycemia in response to a large meal. I still do if I’m not careful.


(Lauren Casapulla) #27

If butter is hard for you to digest, try coconut oil. If the taste of regular coconut oil is odd, try the refined coconut oil. Coconut oil is normally easier to digest and has an antibacterial effect on “bad bacteria,” but it is not rich in vitamins like most animal fats.


(Martin Arnold) #28

When it comes to fats, people say “eat to feel sated”, but i can do that without adding what appears to be enough fat. I’m not sure what to do about that. How do i know how much to add to an otherwise seemingly filling meal to make it really satisfying?


(Adam L) #29

You can still fry in butter or whatever you like, I use a silicon scraper to get all the fat & brown stuff out of the pan and on to my plate. Then melt more butter or hollandiase, mayonnaise on top! It was making the jump to ingesting what seemed like crazy amounts of fat that got the fat burning mechanism in my body switched on.


(Adam L) #30

have you tried cheese & butter sandwiches where cheese is the bread & a slice of butter is the filling? Delicious


(Martin Arnold) #31

I can’t lie, that does seem like crazy amounts of fat!

That said, I don’t want the meal to taste sickly. Healthy or not, pouring so much fat on that it becomes unpalatable is also an issue, albeit a minor one.

So for breakfast I had a pork belly slice (not a very big one), a rasher of bacon, an avocado, and some kale with a bit of salmon with about 9ml of EVOO as well, with some basil to take the edge off.

Now, maybe it’s because it was breakfast, first meal of the day after fasting through the night, but i didn’t feel that sated. It also seems to take longer to digest/be sated in the morning anyway.

Would that satisfy you? Would you have added more fat. I must admit the cooking process (i grilled, I didn’t fry) probably let some of the juice (fat) escape.


(Adam L) #32

Hard to say if it would satisfy me but it sounds pretty good. My meals have much less variety these days and I fry a lot. Breakfast if I have it (or might have it in the afternoon or evening) could be 4 - 6 rashers bacon & 2 - 4 eggs all fried in the bacon fat & none wasted. If that meal was dinner and I’m not avoiding dairy, which I do at times, I might also have some cheese & butter sandwiches with the Aussie favourite Vegemite and/or some whipped cream with xylitol & cacao for dessert. It took me a number of months of feeling very ordinary on LCHF before I found the full info on the keto plan via the dudes & cut the carbs/upped the fat. Once I did that the great feeling & the blood sugar results I’d seen others speak so highly of came to me pretty quickly.


(Phoenix) #33

I’m 7 weeks in, and have 2 huge meals a day. Lunch and dinner is packed with fat and makes me feel satiated until the next meal. I’ve found lately that I don’t actually feel hungry for dinner anymore, but I would still make myself eat dinner, because I usually do a HIIT work out after work, and I’m too scared if I skip a meal, I’ll become so hungry later that I’ll just binge my way through everything in the pantry.

What I have discovered in the last two weeks is - believe it when people tell you that eating more fat, it will make you fuller for longer.
In the first few weeks of Keto, I would just have a 3 egg omelette with 1 1/2 rasher of bacon and a side of rocket salad for dinner. I didn’t really add additional fat into the cooking because I thought there was enough fat from the bacon. However, I would usually still feel hungry after and my brain is constantly thinking what else I could eat.
Then 3 weeks ago, I decided to add 1 T of coconut oil into my omelette to test it out, and all of a sudden, my brain no longer nags at me for wanting more food, I finish my meal feeling full and satisfied.
I tested this theory a week ago, where I forego the coconut oil, and again, I was scrambling around the kitchen for more food. It’s so weird!

I’ve also found I have to be very careful with nuts. I love the crunch and the sweetness of all nuts, but I’ve found as soon as I have a handful I can’t stop and end up with my brain craving more and more and more, and then become over loaded with carbs which makes me feel super hungry even though I just consumed a months worth of nuts and should not be hungry at all.

I’m about the same weight as you, and I’m consuming around 25g carb, 75g protein and 130g fat per day. This seems to keep me the hunger and craving away so far :slight_smile:

So I think test out a few things in your meal, see what your triggers are, and definitely add more fat to replace the protein / carbs.

Good luck!


(Adam L) #34

Great observations about hunger & great strategy for dealing with it. Very interesting about the nuts and hunger.


(Phoenix) #35

Learning everyday and this forum is amazing!


(Martin Arnold) #36

they don’t seem to be working for me.

Two hours since breakfast and I’m really really hungry.

How much fat am I meant to be adding? Wasn’t my meal fatty enough?

I’m worried there is something more serious at play here.

I had lunch:two chicken thighs listed at 17g protein and fat both, fried in 30g butter, with the run off drizzled over some spinach and cabbage. Wasn’t full at all.


#37

Sounds like you’re eating way too little fat for you. A natural fat phobia. Are you counting your daily fat grams AND calories?

Cabbage soaked in another tablespoon of melted butter sounds delicious to me. Mmmm. I also love high fat cheese dipped in butter. Yum. Or Sour-cream and olive oil drizzled on that chicken breast. Mmmm. I wouldn’t eat your meal as it’s too low fat for me.

My advice. When hungry, eat fat. When craving sweet. Eat fat. When I was adapting I sometimes binged on fat. I would have a whole tray of fat bombs. My body was just learning (and perhaps my body was sneakily trying to get carbs in).

Nowadays, I’m having 8 to 12 tablespoons of fat a day and my total body weight is 65kg. I would recommend you forget weightloss/gain until you have adapted to keto. Put an extra tablespoon or 2 of fat on your chicken thighs and cabbage and see what happens.

Also, noting an earlier post, your carb figures for chia seeds are wrong. I know nothing about UK labelling but I do know that chia seeds are around 8grams NET carbs and about 42grams total carbs. You can verify this on any number of nutrient databases. Perhaps they were imported into the UK and the labelling is international.


(Candace) #38

Definitely try this @Martin_Arnold, it is delicious! I just take slices of Kerry Gold Cheddar, and spread on some Kerry Gold Butter - the two are so good together!


(Martin Arnold) #39

Yes that’s possibly the case.

I don’t know how i could have added more fat to that meal.

I reckon I’ve reached 11og fat today, possibly more depending on how fatty those thighs were before being cooked.


(Martin Arnold) #40

How long does that keep you sated for?

I’ve had about 3 tablespoons of cream as well (about 30ml in weight and about 15g I guess) and 40g of cheese.

I’m not averse to eating more, what i have though has to last! :open_mouth: