MOOvember Carnivore


Hi Megan is Grace a big dog? Labrador size 40kg-ish? Does she have any Boxer heritage? Splenic haemangiomas and haemangiosarcomas are operable in many cases. Haemangiosarcoma is only deadly if it spreads from the spleen to other areas, which might be detected on an ultrasound, otherwise it can be quite benign, as a haemangioma, until it grows too big. Splenic haemangioma can be cured by removing the spleen. The expense of surgery can be a handbrake. Patients undergoing surgery will often need a blood transfusion. But the spleen removal surgery is quite straight forward.

What you described is a slight internal bleed; the abdominal pain and day of lethargy. Best treatment is a quiet day of rest for Grace. At the vets, they might consider some IV plasma proteins to help provide blood clotting building blocks. There is a curtain of tissue inside the abdomen called the omentum that seeks out internal injuries and acts as an internal bandage. Biology is awesome. It just needs some staying still time to do its job. A carnivore diet provides lots of the nutrition to help heal the bleeding episodes and rebuild any internal blood loss.

Billie, our Labrador, had surgery last week. It was to explore and repair an infected grass seed fistula under her belly. It cost $AU1500. Billie is pet insured, so we will claim some back from that. She finished her post-op medications in 5 days, and pretty much appeared healed within 3 days. She is 2.5 years old, so heals like a teenager. I have her on some pro-biotics after her antibiotics, and she is eating a carnivore diet very similar to mine but OMAD and alternating between ground beef-based meals and frozen chicken carcase frames. Yesterday, 7 days post-op, she was back at the beach catching up with human and doggy friends. Usually there would be suture removal at 10 to 14 days. But we asked for internal dissolving stitches and she look all healed up a week earlier than scheduled.

(Megan) #223

Hey @FrankoBear,

I took her to the vet 1st thing Monday morning, August the 1st, after being really not ok at times over the weekend. Her belly was full of blood, they did emergency surgery and removed her spleen when they saw it was the source of the bleeding. Vet said it looked like a ruptured splenic tumour and we’d know in a few days if it was benign or malignant. Histology came back as haemangiosarcoma. They gave a prognosis of 3-6 months, but I’ve read a smallish % of dogs can live a year.

I’ve opted for no chemo b/c the vet said it could prolong her life for a few months at best. Instead I’m raw feeding (she’s been raw fed most of her life), usually ketogenic ratios (as per and giving her a turmeric and black pepper paste I make (which can be contraindicated for bleeding tumours but most dogs with bleeding tumours don’t have problems with it), brocolli every day for its cancer fighting properties, and I’ve doubled the dose of her usual fish oil and Bomazeal Mobilize. I also OMAD her to give her body some time each day to deal with healing repair stuff, and not be busy dealing with digesting food. Food wise she eats beef, chicken, raw eggs, oily fish (raw sardines and mackerel, whole fish), and liver, kidney, heart.

I never took out pet insurance on her, tho since getting Lulu (my rottie pup) I did take out accident cover on Grace b/c I could just see her racing around like an idiot with a puppy and pulling or breaking something in her 11 year old body lol. Should probably cancel it now tho, her crazy high energy/activity days are done and Lulu is an extremely ploddy dog most of the time, even as a puppy. Her getting cancer has been such a shock. Other than routine vet trips for vaccination type stuff she hasn’t had a sick day her entire life.

There are possibly all sorts of other things I could do but I’ve picked what I can incorporate easily and what I can afford. Trying to keep her and my quality of life good without me obsessing about her cancer and constantly trying this and that.

B/c the tumour ruptured I’ve read there’s a reasonable chance the cancer can develop in her omentum and it can cause bleeds, either small-moderate or life threatening. Her extremities were very cold pre-op and that’s something I will always check anytime she doesn’t seem ok. By the end of her off day a week or so ago her appetite was fully back and she’s been acting completely fine, so whatever was causing it seems to have resolved.

She took a few weeks to recover from surgery and the massive blood loss. It was awful watching her be so listless. I guess you could say she acts like a very healthy 11 year old now, whereas before the tumour rupture she acted like a 6 year old dog. She rests and sleeps more but the vet said to expect that as she may run a little bit anaemic without a spleen.

Breed-wise best guess is german shepherd (def), longish coated retriever, border collie. Been keeping her on the leaner side since she turned 6, to look after her joints. Currently sitting at around 26-27ish kg. She gets a bit ribby sometimes and I increase her food which resolves it. Her coat is soft and shiny, which is something else I always keep an eye on as an indicator of health.

Not sure when and how she’ll die, whether it’ll be from a bad bleed or the cancer destroying an organ or 2. Just taking it day by day. Wouldn’t wish this on anyone but a lot of people go through it. Had no idea cancer was so common in dogs.

(Michael) #224

Here is a full day of carnivore eating by Naghite.




Total p/f/c/cal are 306/254/25/3600. A bit on low end for me, but pretty standard in general.


Thanks for the full story. I hadn’t realised that she had the splenectomy. Unfortunately the haemangiosarcoma is not the better tumour to have diagnosed. That is amazing stuff that you are doing. We had a large family dog pass away with intra-abdominal haemangiosarcoma over a decade ago. His name was Max and he was a large LabxGermanShepherdDog. He had an emergency splenectomy (not by me), and had his bright and listless days. He was on commercial dry food. One day he wasn’t keen to get up. So we let him stay on his bed. He looked like he was asleep, he slipped away. And, yes, the work of Pet Sanctuary is a good reminder. I think they had something to do with Dr. Dom D’Agostino. Thanks also for the reminder of Grace’s diet. That is really top stuff. Our pets are great teachers. :heart:



(Megan) #227

Wow Linda, that’s intense! Glad you are okay. I wonder what the heck happened. Is it possible that type of veg is just plain toxic, but our bodies learn to accommodate the toxins over a period of gradual and ongoing exposure, so symptoms are mild and generally ignored or put down to other causes?


simple really FB. I don’t do well anymore on rendered beef fat in burger.
I ate tons of it starting zc well. About 2 yrs or so ago I found I loved less fatty burger. I only buy 85/15 or above now. But lately even the 85/15 I am not loving. My best is 90/10 or 93/7.

I find both are like eating filet mignon steak. The texture is so soft and tender and more melty in my mouth kinda thing. I don’t rely anymore on rendered beef fat as some kind of good fat for me. Guts ain’t happy with it anymore.

It is just a personal progression walk for me on burger meat and fat content.

-------------So here is my pork loin I ate yesterday. Just shy of a lb. of meat. I sliced thin and cooked fast and high to crisp a bit in some butter. YUM! Finger ate it in record time LOL

second meal was tuna and mayo with 4 slices salami.

Today I am making my mini meatloaves with the 93/7 burger. Will shoot a pic when I get them made in a while.

I ended up packaging up the burger for freezer and froze it and then I saw I froze it and had to defrost for the meatloaf I wanted yesterday and knew I had that pork loin defrosted I had to eat…omg…when I get ‘too much meat’ around me in the fridge I have to say, eat this, freeze that, defrost that to eat later and what a darn bad issue to have right? :slight_smile: too crazy sometimes on how my meat supply works for me LOL again, yea like it is a real problem :wink:

What kills me is last wk I had to throw out a smaller NY Strip I had in the back of the fridge that got put behind the ‘family crap’ and I lost it. I cringe to the max throwing out my meat!! ugh.

Feeling great now except some sinus issues. Super cold here and that is not me and feeling the winter blues and putting me more in a mood, bleck. Still planning my sunny full on retirement life in the HOT South area where I will thrive vs. freeze my buns off in the cold LOL

ZC strong all!

(Vic) #229

Junkfood evening.

After a long week, in my hotel room, with a movie on netflix

(Robin) #230

My kinda junk food!

(Doug) #231

“Assorted cooked meat pieces.” :sunglasses::clap:

(Karen) #232

I never feel satiated eating deli these days. I always feel the need for some proper hot food.

(Judy Thompson) #233

@FrankoBear the Mayo Clinic! Love it!
I like mayo too add that extra binding fat to meat salads like tuna, chopped chicken or egg. I did experiment with just salting boiled eggs and wonder if it’s just the saltiness of mayo that’s so satisfying sometimes. As kids we loved it, would eat it straight. Mom staged a terrifying inquisition once, “Who left the spoon in the mayonnaise?? If somebody doesn’t confess I’m gonna spank all 4 of ya!” We still laugh about that. It lasted for hours, or at least it seemed like hours. My sister never would confess :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye:
@MeganNZ “The skin is MINE lol” Love it! Don’t give it to hubby either, he doesn’t eat it and I just have to eat his in the kitchen later lol.
There’s only 1 duck fat here.

At least, that’s what’s in my grocery store. Leaving it out a few minutes though, it softens, out I can sous vide anything at 100°F to soften or thaw quickly.
@azi OMG!! Great account of death by veggies! That cream cheese combo would have made me so happy in the old days too. Love Dr. Chaffee, he’s my fave podcast.
@MeganNZ What a great dog mommy you are! I’ve always considered it an honor when a pet trusts me with their life and health.
The past 3 days I’ve tried every day to get in here and read and post. Today was earmarked for this purpose - with all the interruptions I think I’ve finally gotten there. Only about 30 posts behind but hubby kept wanting to talk or practice.
Lastnight we had our little 15 minutes of fame on the local radio station and it went quite well. I think only my brother in AZ heard the broadcast but we had a good time. He asked us to come back in a few weeks and play Christmas music. It’s on the internet live and only 15 minutes. But they changed our time a couple times so I couldn’t let people know.

So back to Wednesday. We had to take the car for a big repair in a neighboring town and stopped there for lunch. I got a sausage and cheese platter. Ate half and brought the rest home.

We also went clothes shopping, still picking up western clothes for our performances. Reba McIntyre has a line, they look great. Hubby was jaw-dropped at the medium sized clothes. It hadn’t registered with him.
Wednesday night we played at the roadhouse. Mimsy was chased around by a 10 week old puppy that’s bigger than she is. She was not amused.
Yesterday we had to go back to get the car, came home and had beef tritips I’d cooked in sous vide for 24 hours.

They were incredibly rare and tender!
Today, a combination of turkey and tritips. You can see my steak hiding under all these turkey wings and the 1 thigh. I couldn’t finish it all. I have so much admiration for @Naghite for your ability to consume 4500 calories :sweat_smile:

(Megan) #234

Whoa Michael! That looks incredibly nutritious.


you always put a smile on my face with your posts :100:

Junkfood, yea I sure get that :wink: and alot of time I just call it scraps!

--------------So I made 2 bigger meatloaves out of my burger I defrosted.

3 eggs to that meat and bake. OH WOW it was so soft and delish that I ended up eating 1.5 of it all…I got a 1/2 left for today to scrap up in second meal. First meal today got a nice steak defrosting. steak and burger…yup day zc done for me.

(Michael) #236

In fairness, I am doing ADF, otherwise that would be way too much if I ate every day :slight_smile:

Absolutely, every day. Bit shy that day of vitamin C (62%) and B1 (73%), but normally I get enough of those, so not worried about one or two light days for those vitamins. Today I will get more than enough of both of those.


Lamb chops (5) tonight with some delicious white fish called Pink Snapper. 1 x playing card 5mm thick slice of pan-fried sheep’s milk halloumi cheese. Midday breakfast was 3 rashers middle bacon and 3 chicken eggs scrambled. A hot beef bone broth was downed during the afternoon. There was coffee.

I went to the beach with Mrs. Bear and Billie. We’re just out the other side of a few stormy cold-front days. On the walk I counted 43 large black cockatoos foraging in the coastal sand dunes. They were eating wild geranium seed heads and the flowers from the saltbush. These birds are rare and going extinct. It was a joy to see and sit with them.

Our old mate Dr. Ted Naiman has some things to say about the carnivore diet on the Diet Doctor podcast. The video is book marked to the section. The topic is satiety.


guys I started this thread for US, Carnivores!! A ZEN thread to check out how we ALL ARE doing…visit and give input!!! :slight_smile:


I wrote this early yesterday and now I send it already…

@Naghite: And people think carnivore doesn’t offer variety :smiley:

Oh, slicing thin, what an idea… Something never crossed my mind. I love crispy thing… I will try…
I usually just cut my (very fatty) meat into small cubes and fry it in its own fat :slight_smile: I like it but surely there are other lovely ways to fry meat…

Hi people, we have a rainy day again :frowning: My poor garden, I would have some work to do in it but not when it’s wet… Oh well, it’s not THAT important I suppose.
We just gave up and started heating at night too… 4C mornings and not quite warm days, a not warm enough yet house (as we wait with heating until we actually start to feel cold and it’s below our normal winter temperature since we have the A/C. so first we need to warm up the house) and 3-5-7 hours of heating downstairs just isn’t a good enough combo. Oh well. The first night didn’t bring much difference but last night (heating longer and higher) finally did. It was 19C at noon! That’s cool, erm warm :slight_smile: Rainy but cold day so airing brought down the humidity, nice. We still need to use the dehumidifier after washing, we always fill the washing machine so there is a lot of wet clothes then. And we never had a drier and never will, not important while taking up space and I never have enough of that. Normally (when it’s not winter) we can put most of the clothes and other cloths outside, that’s nice. I like that we have a roofed terrace part and part of it even gets sunshine! Some part doesn’t as it has 3 beautiful big pines in the way. Fortunately they are very much living, only the thujas died or dying.
Clothes drier, oh, what a modern concept… I lived in a house without water! :smiley: (Just in summer, it was my Grandma’s. I loved it. I mean, there wasn’t water even on the property, that came later. No, there was a well a few hundreds of meters away.) I washed my clothes by hand when I was a beginner programmer in the capitol… Oh and the same big city had rented places without a toilet (well, there was a common one, one for multiple apartments). I was shocked, that is the level I just couldn’t accept ever (and rooms without a window. okay there was one looking at a tiny… erm, duct? vertical tunnel? other people’s toilets looked at it. NOPE. oh I saw horrible places in the capitol whenever I tried to rent a place using my very tiny money). It was bad enough to have a stranger as a roommate in the first months. But I needed a room not to lose my first job I managed to get after a long search. I was born at the wrong time.

I have nice fatty meat now (the SUPER fatty one they sold as pork chop. I will track it as pork shoulder, the fat content is at least that much. but maybe a tad less than the 70/30 scraps I used to buy…), I will eat a pound of it nicely fried, I chose some quite fatty pieces :wink: So my roast probably will be just not too fatty.

I focused on leaner pork in the past and while I still think it can help me sometimes, it doesn’t work so well now that I eat less eggs and fatty dairy doesn’t seem to help with satiation. I too easily overeat protein if I use leanish meat as my main food I think. Or if my satiation will be quick again in the future, I undereat fat during the day.
I try to buy a lot of pork chuck in the near future, that is the chillest. I love it, fat/protein ratio is brilliant for my needs… Not the cheapest though but if it satiates me just right and gives me more joy, the difference isn’t much.
Anyway, it’s pork so it’s cheap compared to many other items.

I drop my dairy now that I have quite fatty protein to base my day on and freshly made at that! :slight_smile: I roast 1300g fatty pork, it should be enough for 3 days, I will eat other meats , my pickled herring is nearing its expiration date and I probably will need the variety soon anyway.

Apart from hardships regarding getting satiated (I was so unsatiated after my dinner yesterday, it passed but then I had some problem at night as so often… but I was sleepy and focused on something else, I had enough of eating at night anyway so I managed to get away with a slightly creamy coffee), it’s quite chill now. It’s carni day #4 for me now (not clean enough even for me due to the carbs in my catfish spread and I had to eat a little whipped cream I made for Alvaro as he didn’t need it anymore, it had 1-2 grams of non-animal carbs again and it was sweetener at that. okay I go back to normal whipped cream and only a little amount gets sweetened, I did it many times but I supposed he will eat it all. he didn’t. but it’s November and I am not THAT dedicated. I am just training. I will be super dedicated in January, I totally expect it being full carnivore. how hard it could be? I will buy various items to help me out in need. I don’t have any processed meat now except some sausages I dislike because it doesn’t uses real intestine but some too thick thing. edible but it bothers me. the taste of the sausage is fine but I ate way better of the same kind) and it’s quite fine. I mean, exactly zero temptation or compulsion or whatever to eat off. It is expected but considering my November this far, I should appreciate I can behave now. Not like I have other good options. Satiation is hard enough with meat and eggs now and they are my best items (apart from gluten but let’s not talk about that, I don’t even have any now).
But the majority of my fasting window and usually a part of my eating window is spent in nice satiation and not thinking about what to eat in the near future. I probably even think less about food, still much. Nice topic.

Oh by the way, I used the program @FrankoBear introduced to us. Most styles like bacon, apparently. Even the “chewed, partially digested and vomited” style (Arcane) that makes some super detailed carpet patterns decided to put an almost recognizable egg and bacon on the pic… As I added eggs, it’s me, after all. Brilliant choice.
Pandora is very pretty, it made a piece of wonderful art from garbage bags too… It is obsessed with putting some shiny, juicy greens to pinkish things but it doesn’t do it with bacon for some reason.



So, yesterday. I don’t remember, it’s good I have notes… 3MAD, maybe? I had 655g pork and a little pickled herring (and eggs and dairy of course but not very much. not very little either). The latter was a huge disappointment. I didn’t feel the very tiny amount of sugar in it but it was full with pickled vegs, more than I expected and poor fish became a mush and mixed with the pickle juice with barely any decent looking (well melted looking but at least mostly fish) pieces :frowning: It was super sour anyway and I love sour so it’s something. It wasn’t spoiled or anything but it wasn’t really nice. I won’t buy it again but I don’t want to give up on pickled herring :frowning: And all the others I checked this far contained sugar and various horrible tasting sweeteners. Sigh. Oh well, Alvaro hates the smell of it anyway. And I lived without it for decades. (I still will check them here and there… :wink: )

I can’t track so I stopped today. For yesterday… Still unknown as I have no idea about the fattiness of my pork but I took an educated guess, I have experience, after all. I ate an okay amount or a bit much and definitely high protein.

And I got a bit distressed. My output processes are always perfect or near perfect. I never have the D. Just now and it was quite extreme for the minute it lasted. And my insides were tender afterwards. And I don’t get it, what did it wrong?! I ate well :frowning:
I just hope it never will happen again, once per life is more than enough for me. And I feel sorry for everyone who has it 100 or 1000 times worse/more often.
I still got hungry later and tasted my fresh pork roast. It wasn’t tender yet so I roasted it more.

Today I was satiated until quite long and then I was borderline hungry for hours. I ate at 16:20 :slight_smile: I wasn’t very hungry, ate my 450g pork (accidentally, I didn’t weigh it first), some eggs and dairy and that’s it. So it was a quite modest but okay day I suppose. I feel a bit odd though, maybe I will get hungry again.

No tracking is nice and I need to train to avoid it so I will do that for some days.

I am still drinking coffee and opened another box of cream. I am incorrigible. I don’t have as many as I used to but still too many. Oh well, I can’t focus on everything at once and quitting coffee isn’t the most important thing for now.

I focus on not eating when I don’t need it yet at the moment. What I eat is straightforward, a bit above a pound of meat, a few eggs, little dairy. Things go smoothly now, I like my food and I am not nearly as hungry as days ago.


Midnight meal. Well my first meal was a tad low it seems, it felt wonderful to eat some more, still okay macros I suppose (eyeballed things and the meat seems about as fat as pork chuck :)).

530g pork and a tiny bit of pickled herring as meat today. Less meat than usual, I came a long way… I am nicely satiated now.