MARCH 2019 IF/EF Chat ALL WELCOME

(Liz ) #282

That makes sense to me! I also have absolutely no problem getting an entire day’s worth of nutrition into one meal lol but like I said, it gets bingy so I spread it out.

#283

Yeah, on the rare occasion I do feel like eating something else (after eating an OMAD) I will simply eat again, and just make it one of the rare second meals, or TMAD. … But it’s just nice to be back where I was, before the surgery had to take place. Was a big speed-bump in my weight loss trend, but no big deal and I’m glad I got the Hernia’s taken care of, so the healing can start taking place. :slight_smile:

I’ll post any loss or change after this week. And hopefully I’ll see something good from it. :crossed_fingers:

(Jeff) #284

Do doctors approve of extending fasts ? And of those fasting for around 2 weeks do they attend the gym at all ? I struggle to see the benefits of starving my self for long periods.

(Eric - The patient needs to be patient!) #285

Last night after dinner I started what will be a 53 hr fast. I took the last week off from EF and did IF and OMAD mostly. I’m looking forward to that fasted felling.

Hopefully I will lose a pound or two.

(Liz ) #286

34 hours in. For me, fasted evenings can be tough, even though when I’m not fasting I don’t eat in the evening anyway. But I LOVE waking up over 24 hours fasted. It’s such a morale boost to know I’m healing my body. Knowing I’ll wake up full of energy gets me through the tougher parts.

I’m a full time caregiver for my elderly mom who is disabled but still able to do most things for herself. She can be left alone during the day but not at night so my husband and I moved in with her. I’m managing her household, which is daunting. Right now I’m picking up the finances where dad left off when he died suddenly while I was with him last May. I’m trying to get the taxes ready.

It’s all an enormous amount of trauma, and grief, and stress to deal with. But keto is saving me! And fasting gives me a modicum of control. And that good, clean energy. Mom is Keto too (at 84!) and I’m so grateful because she’s sharp and doesn’t have a lot of health issues except what’s leftover from years of metabolic syndrome and Lyme disease. No prescriptions. I know this WOE will see us through.

I can’t tell you the number of people on caregiver forums dealing with their caree’s worsening health due to complications from metabolic syndrome AND their own declines as they stress eat carbs. It’s so sad and makes my heart ache for their struggles because if it wasn’t for keto, that would be us.

(Eric - The patient needs to be patient!) #287

Liz

Me too. The second day I wake early I think because of more ketones. But I feel rested.

This is awesome. It can be so hard to get elderly parents to go keto. It is nice she is already. That should help make her later years better.

You seem to be handling the stress well and keto seems to be helping you. Thanks for sharing your situation with us.

#288

Just over 13 hrs. here, so just starting the week off to end March.

Very cool. And I’m sure it’s like you say, it’s better that she is too.

(Liz ) #289

Thanks for listening and responding, Keto is definitely a huge part of how successfully we navigate this fraught time. Dad died of heart disease (according to me he died of orange juice, gallons & gallons of it.) He was almost 88 and didn’t suffer too much, we were all so lucky. I did Atkins successfully in 2003 but until I started researching keto I didn’t even know heart disease was a result of hyperinsulinimia.

Mom has always known about low carb, about her sugar addiction, about emotional eating. She rejected the fear mongering around cholesterol. She’s so savvy. She went on Atkins in the 70s! But fell off it in later years. Lol I still remember as a kid the day the ice cream disappeared from the house :smile: But until keto, which she started just over a year ago, she didn’t have a handle on carb creep or emotional eating.

Yes, I don’t always sleep a full night fasting but it doesn’t seem to make me tired! Ketones FTW!

(Windmill Tilter) #290

I really struggled with sleep too when I first started extended fasting. That got better and better though., By my 5th or 6th extended fast I was sleeping like a log again. :slight_smile:

(Liz ) #291

Nice! I’ve been EFing since July 2017 and it’s still hit or miss whether I’ll sleep through the night.

(I came for the weight loss and stayed for my sanity... ) #292

joining in with a goal of 48h.
started just now.

(Andi loves space, bacon and fasting. ) #293

Not generally but you should ask your doctor if you have questions or concerns. Here’s a good place to start if you want to learn about the benefits of fasting: https://idmprogram.com/fasting-a-history-part-i/

(Andi loves space, bacon and fasting. ) #294

Checking in at 12 hours. This will be 48 or more, we’ll see how this week goes.

I read a Jimmy Moore cookbook over the weekend and I got some great ideas, so I had fun feeding yesterday :). Hope you all had a great weekend!

(Eric - The patient needs to be patient!) #295

I think it is hit or miss. Recently physical with my primary care physician went like this:

  • dr: “You’re ketogenic right?” me: “yes”
  • dr: “what else are you doing?” me: “time restricted feeding” - curious looks, me: “I try not to snack before my first meal, between meals and after last meal and I do intermettment fasting” more curious looks dr: “so you skip breakfast?” me: “yes”
  • dr: “What else are you doing?” me: “I do 1 to 2 extended fasts a week.” at this point I was expected a lecture. dr:: “Well it is working, keep doing what you are doing!” me: big grin, very happy.

Despite much improved biomarkers some doctors just don’t get it. Mine does. She also sees my oldest daughter who has lost 57 lbs in 8 months and is reversing some metabolic conditions unique to women.

I expect, over time, more doctors to get this WOL.

(Herb Martin) #296

Don and I are pretty closely aligned on this.

I’ve fasted 26 days of the last 36. (Not as much as he has but similar and I am thinking to go back to the fast starting Sunday/Mon April 1st).

This will likely be shorter, maybe 5-10 days instead of 12 or 14. My wife is planning to do her first short extended fast then as well.

I do think of “reset” as a specific thing, but not one that is easy to prove or measure.

To me, the “reset” is about clearing the (vast majority of) fat from both the liver and pancreas as well as resetting your insulin to a lower BASAL level perhaps measured by lower average fasting glucose levels.

The idea is to reset the liver, pancreas, glucose and insulin basal levels.

I wasn’t ketogenic for much of my carnivore diet the last 8+ months due to ignoring fat consumption and just eating whatever I wished that was animal products.

My ketone levels are running excellent again on carnivore following the fast: 3.6 this morning with a GKI of 1.7 (DrBozRation of 30).

These are nicely “deep ketosis” & “therapeutic autophagy” if the chart below is valid:

  • 0-1 very deep autophagy
  • 1-3 deep ketosis - therapeutic autophagy
  • 3-6 moderate keto - functional weight loss
  • 6-9 low keto - weight maintenance
  • 9-12 (or higher) - no ketosis, highly anabolic (fat or muscle depends on demand)

I have 50 lbs more to lose for my primary goal (though my fat looks like I might be 10 lbs ahead of that raw measure).

Numbers don’t really matter, they are like mileage markers on the roadside: They give us a sense of how far we’ve traveled, an estimate of progress, and when we might expect to “get there”, but the truth is:

We’ll be there when we arrive and not a moment sooner.

So I guess we’ll start a new thread for Fasting April to begin Monday, but my wife and I intend to finish this feast on Sunday evening and begin then if any of you are interested.

(Jeff) #297

Is there a point where extended fasting becomes unsafe ?
For example 6 weeks ? Or have people gone longer than that ?

(Herb Martin) #298

In terms of “not eating”, I believe the consensus is a resounding NO, with a couple of caveats that aren’t normally exceptions:

  1. Someone with an eating disorder (bulemia, anexoria)

  2. If your % of body fat gets too low – perhaps 6%, which is safe for marathon running men (maybe 3% higher for women. A man at 3% body fat will start consuming muscle protein

  3. You control the ‘other factors’, mainly hydration and associated electrolytes.

#1 and #2 are fairly obvious and few regular dieters will ever get near #type2diabetes

In my opinion, it’s #3, electrolytes, that will trip up the most people and offer the most danger. This includes the issue of ensuring electrolyte support during REFEEDING from long fasts.

The world record for a medically supervised fast is 382 days with only a multi-vitamin daily for supplementation.

Sodium, Potassium, Magnesium are the main electrolyte minerals to watch close (I THINK) though.

Usually, it’s the Potassium that will mess you up first since most people will take some sort of salty bone brother etc on a really long fast or (as I do) drink a salty electrolyte fluid rather than simple water.

Salt is not evil and a pure fast is far too salt-free for my comfort.

Potassium needs to be in biological balance with Sodium, many people are deficient especially when dumping carbs with come with large water losses (it’s where most of the fantastic weight loss early results are located), and most people are deficient in magnesium which is really important to the heart and any other muscle function.

People who take ONLY sodium have a strong chance of getting in trouble with the out of balance potassium (cell fluid transport is governed by these 2 ions primarily.)

I believe the correct ratio is about 4 x Sodium to 1 x Potassium by WEIGHT though I have seen conflicting advice.

Something like 150mg Na, 35mg K in 12 oz water.

You could probably double the amounts if you are drinking much etc.

CHECK, do NOT BELIEVE the above.

#299

I posted earlier on the thread about struggles with sleeping. Then the next couple of 40-hours fasts I did, I had a whiskey about 30–45 minutes before bed, and that helped a ton. But on my last fast on Saturday, I went to sleep just fine at a normal time with no assistance. I’m hoping that’ll be the same tonight (I’m fasting today). We’ll see.

(KCKO, KCFO) #300

Eric, great visit with the dr. Great that the dr. can see the differences in your daughter too.

#301

Coming up on 25 hrs. presently. :+1:

As Eric had stated above, it’s probably hit or miss. But personally, from my speaking with a few Doctor’s on it myself, I think you will find that most generally don’t agree with, or recommend Fasting right off the bat. But, I also think this is more to do with the fact that most may not be familiar with Fasting benefits, etc. - So unless they have multiple patients they are already dealing with, or themselves have a good working knowledge of Fasting, I think you might find it hard to find many who would support it, with little understanding. (This may even be the safe bet, as to things going wrong & coming back on them?)

I spoke with my Surgeon recently, on a follow-up visit, (a month after surgery) we spoke about eating, working out, etc. And during all this, I mentioned that along with my WOE, that I also Fast quite a bit. … At that, she then mentioned ‘Well, that’s not really that good for you’ … So I said, ‘have you ever fasted or know anything about autophagy’? She just smiled, and after a few seconds, she said 'Well, if I were ‘you’ I would just continue back to what you were doing before surgery. :slight_smile: … And yes, she knew quite well I had switched over to this WOE/WOL 7 months beforehand, and believe we even spoke about the quite carby Hospital food while I was there. :slight_smile:

By our primary Doctor (Who’s also our neighbor) told us that neither her nor her husband (Both Doc’s) were familiar with Keto, but had simply heard of it. But also said that she would support us on it and even started looking into it herself. So from speaking with us over the next 4-5 months, watching the Netflix documentary we had suggested (The Magic Pill) and seeing our results… They are now fully behind the Keto WOE/WOL, and just told me a couple weeks ago that they both have been Keto since Christmas and that her husband just after a couple months no longer has to take his own Diabetic Meds himself. :smiley: … :+1: So now are spreading the word through their patients, and talking to a lot of them about us, or introducing us when we are in their office. (It’s been a WIN/WIN all around)