Karim's Extended Fast Tracker - come along for the ride

[aussiewill]

Loving the updates I’m interested in what sort of workout youre doing with the weights. I’ve always lifted along with traditional powerlifting but I’m worried that could be too taxing on the body during a fast

[damgal]

I’m finding your experiment and data quite interesting but I’m just quietly following along.

[OldDoug]

you guys have been pretty quiet since I started sharing my plots and tables… too much info? too geeky? any advice or feedback?

I like hearing how you feel each day, Karim - always interested in this. Lots of individual variance. Glucose down into the high 30s - the old insulin sensitivity should be gaining.

All the weight/lean/fat data is cool too - it will be good to see where it all shakes out at.

[Karim_Wassef]

Thanks guys. I really appreciate the support.

Day 7
21.9% (bf%)
178.2 lb (total)
139.2 lb (lean)
39.0 lb (fat)
5.2 (morning ketones) -> 6.2 (night)
53 (morning glucose) -> 49 (night)

Day 8
21.7% (bf%)
177.6 lb (total)
139.1 lb (lean)
38.5 lb (fat)
4.7 (morning ketones) -> TBD (night)
57 (morning glucose) -> TBD (night)

So I think today is the first real day of fasting. The first week was really preparatory.

The first three days I was still eliminating digestive matter and basically living off that, so not really consuming my own fat or being autophagic. It’s a little humbling to think that fasting three days a week like I have been is really just resetting my digestive system, nothing more.

The last 4 days of the first week, my body was actually starting to recalibrate for fasting and that’s why my glucose and ketones pushes extremes with a preference to high ketones since I’m reasonably fat adapted.

But I think it’s starting to reset now into real fasting mode where my body is going to try to optimize and improve efficiency without any expectation of eventual exogenous sources of energy. So that’s why I think today is the first day of real extended fasting. Finally tapped into it. Days 6-7 were the real shift in blood volume so my cold shock was well timed.

Last night, I did some HIIT and it really warmed me up. I felt like I was literally glowing with heat afterwards. So amazing what 30mins of intense activity can do. Woke up warm too.

So this morning - looks like I’ve lost 0.5lbs of fat and 0.1lbs lean mass. That’s more normal so looks like I’m fast-adapted now. I’m going to set an alarm each hour to remember to take a teaspoon of salt… I really need to keep my body’s electrolytes and water up. Going to take an hour weightlifting today (2x my usual) so I can go to lower weights higher reps.

Ketones lower this morning but I think that’s the efficiency circuit kicking in to optimize my use of my own fat reserves more “prudently”. GKI of 0.67 so it’s trying to avoid going too deep into autophagy … I get it, but I’m going to kick it in the tuckus at the gym so it knows that fasting isn’t a holiday from real hard work.

Overall I feel good and energetic. We’ll see how it goes.

My next DEXA is next Friday March 22nd. That would be 18 days. I need to get there and then I can recheck my variables and see if I’m on target. I really want to get to April 28th but I have to take it one day at a time or else 55 days feels and looks like forever. For now, I’ll try to go two weeks between validation tests.

[Karim_Wassef]

I think we underestimate what our bodies can do and our bodies are designed to keep us alive, not athletic… so if you demand less, it gives you the least it can get away with.

I lift 30-45mins each weekday. I do shoulder and chest Wednesdays to establish some sense of order but I shake up the rest of the week alternative legs, back, arms and core.

[Karim_Wassef]

Thanks. I get little home support and just mentioning my ketones makes my wife walk away in disgust - not eating her food makes her irritable & makes her think I’m irritable… lol

My kids are more interested but it’s like a video game to them… daddy got 6.2! High fives!!!

I like keeping a mental diary too. It helps when I articulate what I’m feeling and thinking. I get to say it and then grip it so I can influence it. Also helps me see my progression when I feel stuck.

8 days officially makes this my second longest fast so every bit of support, feedback or just discussion keeps me going.

[Madeleine]

I’m finding your experiment and data quite interesting but I’m just quietly following along.

Me too

Good luck @Karim_Wassef! Seems like you’re moving along beautifully!

[x-Dena-x]

You’re over there with your ice packs, and I’m over here in my office with a space heater pointed directly at my legs.

Nice ketones!!! I hit 3.5 yesterday with a full day of eating even. I’m sure these will drop a bit when I’m fully fat adapted.

[Karim_Wassef]

I do sauna and ice packs. It’s about stretching the dynamic range of my adaptation…

Ok… so this morning I was 57G and 4.7K… a few hours later, I was 55G and 4.7K. That’s remarkably consistent… then I lifted for an hour and sauna for 30min… 54G and 5.8K.

Hope you all don’t mind my shorthand G for glucose and K for ketones. That’s a GKI drop from 0.65 to 0.52. Lifting fasted rocks.

Recently when I exert myself, my ketones drop and glucose goes up… this time my ketones shot up and glucose stayed very very flat.

I think this is the fundamental switch- during the first week, my body is anticipating exogenous sources of calories “he’s going to eat sometime…”. But in this deep fasted state, it’s not expecting food, it’s expecting more of the same and will overshoot it’s ketone production to make sure we make it through whatever is happening.

I can see it as a significant survival aid while hunting, for example… it actually makes sense why my results seem inconsistent. I was looking for a linear model but the body is all about adaptation and it is explicitly nonlinear and incredibly individual. It’s absolurely amazing.

I have a ton of energy … and the mental clarity I’ve been seeking is finally coming into focus. Calmness too- diggin it…

Much love for all the support.

[Karim_Wassef]

Ok… after UV, I’m at 52G and 5.8K so 0.5GKI. Usually after so much stress, I see it drop but the trend continues…

I am amazed at how consistent my glucose is… 52 to 56 all day. Two more measurements left today.

I am feeling physically tired but mentally alert and calm. I think I’ve run it a little ragged today and it’s complaining.

[Karim_Wassef]

Ok. Ending the night a bit early today. Feeling physically exhausted.

Closing numbers are 52G and 6.2K so just at 0.47 GKI. Looks like I’ve stabilized to this level for now. Taking it easier tomorrow so we’ll see what that does.

[Karim_Wassef]

Ok… starting day 9 (week 2, day 2)

Day 7
21.9% (bf%)
178.2 lb (total)
139.2 lb (lean)
39.0 lb (fat)
5.2 (morning ketones) -> 6.2 (night)
53 (morning glucose) -> 49 (night)

Day 8
21.7% (bf%)
177.6 lb (total)
139.1 lb (lean)
38.5 lb (fat)
4.7 (morning ketones) -> 6.2 (night)
57 (morning glucose) -> 52 (night)

night)

Day 9
21.6% (bf%)
177.0 lb (total)
138.8 lb (lean)
38.2 lb (fat)
6.3 (morning ketones) -> ? (night)
57 (morning glucose) -> ? (night)

Mixed feelings about this result. Lost 0.6 lbs with half of that (0.3 lbs) lean and half (0.3 lbs) fat. I took a double dose of leucine yesterday to help with my recovery after weightlifting but still more lean loss than I anticipated. I was hoping the muscle gains would offset the loose skin loss but it’s not working out like that (at least for yesterday).

Ok … so 0.3 lbs isn’t massive, but also not sure where it’s coming from. The DEXA in 10 days will help but uncertainty is still the source of unease.

Morning ketones and glucose pretty much what they were ending last night so little dawn effect left over. First morning with ketones over 6 so that’s good.

I plan to take it easier today. I expect my body will take a breather until midday when I was lifting yesterday and then push ketones again anticipating another workout. So, I’ll do ice packs this morning to suck the energy out and then not lift still 3pm to confuse it.

Another day of curious experimentation ahead.

Overall, I feel more energetic. Mental clarity and calmness still going strong. I probably overslept a bit 9pm to 6am so 9 hours, but I felt that I needed it.

[x-Dena-x]

calmness still going strong

I don’t think there’s any room for energy in your body for being anything other than calm lol.

[Karim_Wassef]

you would think so, but irritability is much more common in the beginning

[x-Dena-x]

Yeah I think extended fasts while doing Keto kind of give us an edge. On a fully carb-laden diet, it makes it much worse. I’ve done a 60 day green juice fast, and I practically had to be caged for the first few weeks.

You’re doing great, though. I love seeing your daily updates.

[Madeleine]

I love seeing your updates!!

Recently when I exert myself, my ketones drop and glucose goes up… this time my ketones shot up and glucose stayed very very flat.

I think this is the fundamental switch- during the first week, my body is anticipating exogenous sources of calories “he’s going to eat sometime…”. But in this deep fasted state, it’s not expecting food, it’s expecting more of the same and will overshoot it’s ketone production to make sure we make it through whatever is happening.

And this ^ is very cool.
I think the body is more amazing than we generally realize. Often I see newbies assuming that everything’s going to be linear, when in fact there are incredible adaptive changes that happen along a new path.

When people talk about keto as a fad it drives me crazy. It seems absurd that our body would be able to do all these incredible things in a fasted and/or ketogenic state because of a new-fangled diet or something that scientists invented in the 1920s. The reason we thrive on ketones is because it is one of our default metabolic states. The lack of evolutionary perspective is astonishing.

[Karim_Wassef]

Yes. I get really passionate about this with friends and family but the radical indoctrination by ignorant doctors and hype media that just want simple blurbs is frustrating.

It’s like trying to explain that the earth isn’t flat… and then being told that the majority of “scientific literature” assured that it really is flat. The idea that most people are wrong is hard to push against. I have to put this in the context of 200,000 years of human existence vs the last 10,000 years of agriculture based cultures.

I hope my data helps show these amazing trends of adaptability and maybe combine it with more data from others to help us understand the real capabilities of our bodies.

[Karim_Wassef]

So here’s an interesting observation. As I lose fat, sitting down becomes increasingly uncomfortable. I find it much easier to stand up to take business calls or walk around for discussions. I used to sit for hours working on my computer but I can’t do it any more. My b*** just hurts too much.

Seems like a weird spiral where losing weight drives behavior that accelerated losing weight and vice versa. Like the gravity of a planet… if you’re far enough away, you’re free & will keep moving away but if you’re too close, you’ll eventually get sucked in and crash. Just need to get beyond the low earth orbit to break free.

[Karim_Wassef]

So post cold-packs: 38G and 7.2K, so 0.29GKI.

That’s probably my lowest GKI ever. I’ll go back and compare it to my last 12 day fast to be sure.

It’s amazing how much impact cold has. I got a second set of cold packs so I can alternate while one is in the freezer.

[Karim_Wassef]

decided to show the trend for glucose and ketones too - hope it helps make sense of things

and here’s the mass loss:

Really not happy about the lean mass loss vs. fat loss (yes I know that the lean scale is 0.5 lbs/division and the fat scale is 1 lb/division ). I know autophagy is explictly the consumption of old unproductive cells (including lean mass), but I was hoping that my lifting would help mitigate some of it. I don’t see loose skin the way I did losing weight on keto, and I do see more muscle definition - not enough muscle mass yet. I know that’s a long term effect extending weeks out, but still uneasy…

Overall, I should be happy with 16lbs in 8 days (since weigh in is at morning of the 9th) but having so much of it out of lean mass is …

Assuming the first 4 lbs of lean and 4 lbs of fat are really just clearing out digestive matter and water loss, it’s really 6 lbs of fat and 2 lbs of lean. That makes a lot more sense for 8 days… 0.75 lbs of fat per day (checks out with my RMR) and 0.25 lbs per day of lean (no explanation… )

I also see that my fat loss looks to be reducing day over day, but I’m ok with that. fat loss comes in waves for me. It’ll look like it’s slowing down for a few days and then I’ll get a flush and the remainder that’s been stored as water will self correct. That’s why I prefer the averages over longer windows of time.

Open to any ideas or suggestions… ok, going to lift now.

Starting the lift with 41G and 7.9K so still at 0.29GKI. Should be interesting.