K9 diet?


(Jason Christianson) #1

I don’t actually know what category to put this under. I guess the first question is whether or not there’s someone who know’s a thing or two about veterinary dietary requirements.

My dog has had a problem for a long time where her nose is really dry, rough, cracked and bleeds. Think your dry, callous, cracked heels. We’ve had her to the vet on multiple occasions and the advice has been to put ointment like aquaphor on the dog’s nose. It helps, a little. Not much. We are already feeding her a “good” grain free food that’s got quite a bit of fat in it. Doc did recommend giving her a fish oil capsule every day and see if it helps - it didn’t.

Anyway, a 50lb box of lard got left within reach of the dog and she ate a significant portion of it. Eating several pounds of lard did make her throw up the next day. However, following that, she didn’t want to eat her dog food and would just stare at the box of lard that is now out of her reach. So, we started mixing in a little bit into her food. Low and behold, now she eats her dog food and her nose has mostly healed. Kind of reminds me how my calloused heel is improving on this keto diet.

I need to find out if it’s safe to give my dog some lard with her food. But, for the same reasons I’m not sure I can trust my doc when I tell them I’m eating 70% of my calories from fat and getting 4000mg of salt in a day, I’m not even sure how to validate my vets response when I do ask her. Maybe I should ask my vet if they do keto?


4oz of Protein at a time
(Allie) #2

Saturated fats are amazingly beneficial for dogs, as well as essential. They know what’s good for them so go with it. This is why my boy gets coconut oil when he asks for it.


(Karen) #3

Dogs/wolves eat mostly fatty meat. Guess I’d look at what zoos feed wolves. Just a thought. Hope it’s not wolf chow.:wink:


(Jason Christianson) #4

So… neighborhood children and the little yippy dogs that plague the neighborhood?


(Karen) #5

Absolutely… Yippy children. :joy::joy:


(Bacon is a many-splendoured thing) #6

Boy, that took a turn for the weird, real quick! :rofl:

(I love you guys!)


(Jason Christianson) #7

I’m good at that :wink:


(ANNE ) #8

What made me smile the most was not the story regarding the dogs nose and paws getting better. But the fact that having a 50lb box of lard in the house is just so very normal…for a Keto home that is.


#9

I admit I don’t know much about the science of keto & have never got round to reading a lot of the research (one day…), but our old lab had chronic pancreatitis, & couldn’t eat any fat without it upsetting her. When I’d read up about it, one of the causes was listed as having too much fat… but I do agree that if we can’t trust the medical profession, can we trust the veterinary one? There’s big money in it, especially with the special scientific diets from the big companies!


(icky) #10

@Callisto you’re a vet right…? Any ideas? :blush:


(icky) #11

This thread might help Jason


(icky) #12

If her nose has improved, I would keep giving her lard.

You sound like an attentive dog owner, who cares about his dog.

So if she had any adverse reactions to being given some lard daily, I’m sure you would pick up on it and adjust accordingly.

Very happy for you and your dog! I bet she is a lot happier with that health issue resolved!

I may try this for my dog too. He has thyroid problems and stomach issues and is very skittish as he is a rescue dog. If it can help him with any of his issues, that would be wonderful.


(icky) #13

Update: Just put a large spoonful of butter in my dog’s food and stirred it under.

He’s an incredibly fussy eater - to the point of being eating disordered/ slightly anorexic (rescue dog).

But the butter seemed to convince him - his bowl was empty within 5 mins. :+1:t3:

I will be “careful” with this and watch him for any adverse reactions, but will continue to try this. Even if it just improves his appetite and makes his coat shinier, that’d be a good result.


(Ron) #14

I have raised many dogs in my life and it has always been my practice to give them a raw chicken egg in their daily diet just for this reason. Have never had an issue with a dog and dairy and the improvement to skin, hair, nails, and health is very visible.:ok_hand:


(icky) #15

Hey Ron,

I’ve been wary of raw eggs so far because of the “avidin” thing in eggs.

Just googled it again and it seems that re biotin-absorption, it’s no longer a concern. (Five years ago, the CW was don’t give your dog raw eggs cos of avidin/ biotin.)

It seems there is still some concern re trypsin, so I’m not sure about that, re raw/ cooked.

We want to get chickens soon, so getting a few extra chickens so that our cats and dogs can have eggs too seems like a good idea. Raw certainly seems easier/ quicker. I’ll have to give the trypsin thing some thought…

It’s confusing, because ppl have been giving their dogs raw eggs for decades/ centuries to give them shiny coats, so anecdotal evidence seems to imply it works fine.

“An enzyme called ‘avidin’, present in raw egg whites can inhibit the absorption of biotin, a type of B vitamin. This can result in skin problems. Cooking egg white denatures avidin and stops it from preventing the absorption of dietary biotin. However, according to some experts, eggs are so rich in biotin, that avidin cannot prevent absorption of the entire amount of biotin. Consumption of raw egg white for a prolonged period (many weeks to years) can affect biotin levels…”

"…And as for the fear of biotin deficiency, egg whites contain avidin, which is a biotin inhibitor. Biotin is one of the B vitamins and is important for cellular growth, fatty acid metabolism and good skin and coat. Biotin deficiencies are quite rare and it would take a huge amount of eggs to cause one. But here’s the best part …
Egg yolks are really high in biotin, so as long as you feed the entire egg, there’s no need to worry…"

"…The good news is that the egg yolk contains plenty of biotin, so if you feed a dog a complete raw egg the biotin destroying capacity is minimised by the eggs own biotin supply. That is the egg white biotin inhibition caused by avidin is neutralised by the biotin in the egg yolk, however biotin from other food sources can then be used in the dog’s body. Cooking an egg denatures avidin which stops it binding to biotin, however you will still get problems from trypsin being inhibited if your dog is fed raw eggs.

Why dogs need Trypsin

Trypsin is an enzyme found in the small intestine that is necessary for digestion. Trypsin also removes dead skin cells (tissue) and allows healthy tissue to grow. It has been shown that by feeding a dog as little as two to three raw egg whites in one meal can inhibit trypsin to the point of causing chronic diarrhoea in dogs and mal-absorption of many nutrients. Dried uncooked egg white alone will have the same negative effect.

Just like avidin, heat treatment denatures the trypsin inhibitor of egg whites."


(Ron) #16

My dogs get 1 egg a day for six days a week and the seventh day they fast so it doesn’t seem as it would be a problem according to the article anyways. I have been doing it for 60 years and have never seen an issue so I ain’t stopping now. :grin:
I would bet there are lots of worse things in commercial dog foods that do more damage that eggs would and I can’t afford to feed them carnivore daily meals so guess they are just stuck with getting nutrients from those grass fed chickens eggs. :wink:


(icky) #17

Yeah. Sometimes all the (conflicting) dietary advice out there makes you think all sources of food are harmful/ a problem in some way… and to be safe, it’s best to eat NOTHING AT ALL :crazy_face:

This particular thing (avidin) has been stuck at the back of my mind for a few years, so I’ll have to see where I go with it.

My dog is about to be given a serve of grain-free dog food, with water mixed in for his hydration/ kidneys, with a big spoonful of melted butter added, with a scrambled egg added, some vitamin paste and just for fun, I’ve sprinkled some parmesan cheese on top to round it off :joy:

I feel slightly ridiculous right now :see_no_evil:


(icky) #18

And yeah, I frowned when I read that too. As little? Cos the average person feeds a dog 5 raw egg whites per meal?? With the egg yolks removed, of course… as we all do… :crazy_face:


#19

Not a vet - but long time dog owner - and I would say yes to any type of fat that I would eat is fine for bowser. I have heard that metabolically dogs/humans are not that far off from each other - so meat/fat makes sense. And I’m pretty sure our ancestoral dogs weren’t out there grazing in wheat fields🤣

Though I would watch the fat portion - his/her tummy might react. So maybe a spoonful/day?
Also a raw/cooked egg is good for them.

After being on keto for a year and thinking ‘why am I still giving my dog grain??” So we’ve switched our pup off kibble to raw (that has a pretty good portion of fat content) and he’s looking lean and happy.


#20

Hey, sorry for the late arrival! Did something last night other than surf the forum, go figure LOL
Thanks for the tag, @sugar-addict!

Unless there’s a specific medical/sensitivity reason why a particular dog can’t handle extra fat, I think extra lard or butter would be just fine. Great info on it helping your dog’s nose @JasonC! I’ll keep that in mind. I’ve seen two other treatments that have helped: rubbing the contents of a Vit E capsule on the nose a couple times a day, and also coconut oil in the diet seems to help some dogs. But I haven’t seen one treatment that works for every dog so it’s nice to know the lard helped. These are simple cases of dry peeling nose, of course, if it looks particularly bad (a lot of inflammation, eaten-away type of appearance) then I want to be sure it’s not an auto-immune condition, infection, cancer, or something else.

As for eggs, I think they are great for dogs and cats both, my cat gets a couple of raw egg yolks mixed into each batch of food, which gets spread out over several meals. I’m not religious about the raw thing, so if I were going to feed whole eggs, I’d probably cook them. But it’s not because I have evidence of whole raw eggs being dangerous. Just an abundance of caution, plus the fact that she gets SO much protein in her formulated raw diet that she doesn’t need the egg white.

The thing I try to keep in mind is that while we tend to eat variety in our diets, if I’m feeding the same thing to my pets day in and day out, I just don’t want negative cumulative effects over time from deficiencies. I know some people are much better at incorporating variety than I am. But that’s really the main reason for my caution.