Just got my insulin level test results

[Squiggler]

I have been doing some extended fasts in the last couple of years, in order to lose weight and reverse my diabetes. I have also changed what I eat and when, all of which has helped. I’ve lots over 60lbs (from 258lbs) and the weight loss has transformed my life in ways I could write a lot about (but I won’t) Its just been great. I have also kept the weight off too.
But my diabetes continues and so I decided to have my insulin level tested last week, while I am on an extended fast. The test was done last Saturday when I was on day 10 of my current fast and the level of insulin is 19.6. From what I read online, this is very high. Is this right?
if so, I think this prevents my blood sugars from going down. They are falling but very slowly. This morning my BG was 136, after 12 days fasting.

I don’t have access to healthcare so I have to do things on my own.
If anyone has had a similar problem with their diabetes and insulin levels found a solution, please could you let me know.

[lfod14]

They are falling but very slowly. This morning my BG was 136, after 12 days fasting.

You realize that fasting is a huge stress to the body right? That effects blood sugar levels. What’s your typical A1C? I’d be more worried about that.

I just checked my last labs and the lab range on Insulin was 2.6 - 24.9, so you’re “in range”. Can’t be that high!

[amwassil]

A new paradigm of insulin resistance - Diet Doctor

…

It’s the insulin that causes insulin resistance

How can we explain this apparent paradox? The vital clue is that insulin itself causes insulin resistance. The primary problem is not the insulin resistance, but the hyperinsulinemia.

Insulin resistance refers to the fact that for a given amount of insulin, it is more difficult to move glucose into the cell. But this does not necessarily mean that the gate is jammed. There are other possibilities why glucose cannot get into that resistant cell. Perhaps the glucose cannot enter the cell because it is already overflowing. The new paradigm of insulin resistance as an overflow phenomenon resolves the central paradox.

This changes EVERYTHING. If you believe the old ‘lock and key/ internal cellular starvation’ model, then the appropriate treatment is to increase insulin as much as needed to push that pesky glucose into the cell. That has been the way we have treated type 2 diabetes for the last 50 years. And it’s been a complete disaster. The ACCORD/ ADVANCE/ VADT/ TECOS/ SAVIOR/ ORIGIN randomized controlled trials all proved the failure of this paradigm.

However, if the ‘overflow’ paradigm is correct, then increasing insulin to push more glucose into an overflowing cell is EXACTLY wrong! This would only make diabetes worse. Which is EXACTLY what we see clinically. As we prescribe insulin to type 2 diabetes, patients don’t get better, they get worse. Their blood glucose is better, but they gain weight and they still develop all the complications – heart disease, stroke, kidney disease, blindness etc.

The correct treatment of the overflow paradigm is to empty out the BODY, not just the blood of the excessive glucose. How? LCHF and intermittent fasting. And guess what? That’s EXACTLY what we see clinically. As we start fasting type 2 diabetes patients, they lose weight, their medication requirements go down and eventually it reverses.

— Jason Fung

PS: You can thank @atomicspacebunny for the link to this article.

[Squiggler]

does not this show that my insulin level is high? Or am I reading it wrong?

[Squiggler]

Fasting is not a stress on the body.

Fasting is completely natural and is built into our biology, which has developed for millions of years, in environments where there always were unpredictable periods and levels of feast and famine. So the body adapted over all those years to accommodate this environment.

In addition, when a person eats all the time, many things the body needs to do can’t be done. Its like road works that can only be done at night because there is little to no traffic. It then has to stop in the morning.
Same with the body.

Our bodies have not changed in many thousands of years (perhaps 100s of thousands and before the biology evolved into a human form), but we have changed our environment, to an artificial and corrupt one, where we have food (and also not read food/frankenstein stuff), pretty much 24/7/365 in many parts of the world. Eating all the time prevents autophagy and many other super-duper-fab-great-smashing things from happening and this greatly contributes to aging, all kinds of illnesses.
It is not necessary to eat all the time, or even every day.

Fasting is truly wonderful and it is the solution (along with what we eat and when) that is the key to improving health and longevity.

[lfod14]

OK, not eating for days on end isn’t a stress on the body.

Could care less that we’re designed to not die during times of not having food. I’ve done my share of fasting, typically week long ones and very aware of that. All I got from it was a destroyed metabolism.

Fasting is truly wonderful and it is the solution (along with what we eat and when) that is the key to improving health and longevity.

We can disagree on that one. I went from being able to loose weight to having nothing but issues doing so and the metabolic testing from before and after to back it up.

[Squiggler]

I’ve actually read my test result wrong (because I read the report wrong).
My insulin level is 1.8 - reasons to be cheerful, part 3!

[ctviggen]

Back it up then.

The problem with metabolic data (and we’ll ignore the error inherent in these tests) is that if you lose weight, you’ll by definition have a lower metabolism. The issue is: is what you get lower than what you “should” have? That’s tricky to answer.

[Janie]

You say you have done extended fasts over the last couple of years, but have you tried a keto diet? Carbs less than 20 g?

[Squiggler]

I really hate cooking (except making easy things, like bean soups, grilling/roasting veggies, where I can just prepare and then leave the cooking to the stove/oven while I do something else) and I find it hard (and tiresome) to judge/calculate ratios, weigh food, work out what an oz/gm is, etc, etc. Its all too much for me. I don’t think we should be micro focused on food like this.
I have had people tell me, multiple times, “but if you do this/that or follow this “simple” recipe…”, but I just can’t because I don’t have the patience to cook and do multiple steps in prep, etc.
I wish I was different, but I’ve been this way all my life.

[amwassil]

@Janie In other words: No. @Squiggler read Fung’s article. Maybe it will motivate you. If not, well, it’s your life.

[lfod14]

Agreed, and the normal amount of metabolic rate slow down because I’m now a smaller person isn’t what I’m talking about or worried about. A smaller me doesn’t need to be able to burn what 300lb me did. But 215lb me that’s around 185lbs of muscle, lifts heavy 5-6x week and does some cardio a couple times a week with a physical job shouldn’t have a 1700RMR. That’s insane! I didn’t have that before My last one clocked in around 2600 I believe. There’s nothing to “back up” it wasn’t an issue before, is now. My RMR testing verified it.

[Janie]

You don’t have to worry about macros and keto can be super simple. All you have to to is count carbs for a while and once you understand how many carbs are in what foods you can stop counting.

Grilling meat and low carb veggies is easy. Soups are easy - just lose the beans and make meat and veggie soups. No need to be “micro focused” once you get into the habit of eating keto, but you DO need to count when you start out or you won’t be able to keep your carbs under 20.

You don’t need to count protein or fat - just count carbs. I keep stuff made up ahead of time in the fridge if I don’t feel like cooking. Charcuterie rolled up with a slice of cheese and mustard, cook up a pot of chicken thighs and shred and make chicken salad. Egg casseroles are crazy easy - mix and bake and they nuke well and not just for breakfast.

I make “spaghetti” in about 10 minutes all in one skillet. Brown some hamburger, add Rao’s marinara (no sugar added sauce), throw in some shredded cabbage from a bag and cook a few minutes until wilted, throw some cheese on top and voila - low carb dinner that reheats well and you can make a big batch and eat on for a couple of days.

Fast food? Ask for a burger with no bun (you can take the bun off but many times lose the cheese as it sticks to it).

Not hard if you really care to improve your health. If not, then there is an endless supply of excuses. I’d be worried with insulin numbers that high. I had my fasting insulin tested after a year on keto - 4.6 uIU/mL. Fasting glucose was 83 mg/dl.

I wish you well - if you want to start keto this is a great place for support.

[amwassil]

I seldom cook and when I do it’s usually something in my sous vide. That’s basically seal it in a bag, drop it in the water and leave it there for whatever hours required. I make coffee every morning and hot, creamy bone broth most evenings.

I ‘butter poach’ eggs which is probably the most complicated thing I do. Line a cup with butter, break a couple of eggs onto the butter, put the cup in a saucepan with about an inch of water, cover, bring to a boil for about 5 minutes. I usually just eat it right out of the hot cup.

Right now I’m eating today’s lunch: Liverwurst, Manzanillo olives, cream cheese and bacon bits, in proportions to my current fat/protein macros. 7 grams of carbs from the Liverwurst and cream cheese. That’s a bit more than 1/2 my carbs today.

[Squiggler]

I just don’t want to be counting. But I don’t eat much carbs anyway, so…
As to your suggestions, these have animal foods in them which I don’t eat and won’t.
I also don’t keep much perishable food in my home beyond what I buy for 1-2 weeks of eating.
If a dish needs something I don’t have, I have to go out specially to a grocery store, none of which are near me. And the ones closest to me are not the cheapest, best choices, etc.
I don’t shop often and when I do, I buy for 1-2 weeks of food in mind, and/or freeze some for much later. If I am passing a store and think to have something for which I don’t have the ingredients, then yes, I’ll stop and get that/them.

My insulin level is not actually high. I updated the info here (1.8).

Its best not to critical/be negative to people because they don’t want to do what you think they should. It makes it less likely that they will read what you write.

[amwassil]

@Squiggler You asked for help. Take you own advice and don’t be critical/negative of folks who take the trouble to respond. If you repeatedly reply that ‘I don’t do this, won’t do that, don’t like, don’t want…’ to everyone’s suggestions you will very quickly be ignored as trolling the forum. It appears now you failed to tell us upfront a very important fact: you are either vegetarian or vegan. Yes, it makes a big difference and you should have said so.

[Squiggler]

I asked for info on insulin levels, not anything else.

There is a tendency on this site for people to drift into their self-devised hobby horses and proselytize to others.
In addition, we are all unique, so even if person A had fabulous results, doing A, B, C, X, Y, Z, it does not mean person B will do too. Its extremely complicated to actually know what is going on within a person;'s body and not even doctors know. The best doctors can do (the good ones) is narrow down the possibilities, and then over time, perhaps get the desired results. Even with the desired results, it does not mean that “we know what is going on in your body”. It does not.

I do understand that many people have good results with keto, but this site is a self-selected group of people, who are often both keto fans and want to talk about it. This site is therefore not representative of the whole world and I am sure there are people who have not had success with keto, or not as much success as they expected or hoped for/read about.

My choice to not eat animal sources of food has nothing to do with this thread or this site and so there is no basis for you to claim it is “a very important fact”. It is not.

Furthermore, this section of this site has nothing to do with keto, so that person who waded in with their keto story and suggestions had no basis to do so. They are the one who you should be directing your criticism towards, not me.

My only error is engaging with them on eating keto.

I have the answer to my insulin level question, from elsewhere, so I will not need to revisit this site.

[NelleG]

Furthermore, this section of this site has nothing to do with keto, so that person who waded in with their keto story and suggestions had no basis to do so. They are the one who you should be directing your criticism towards, not me.

Dude…did you miss that this is the KETOGENICFORUMS?? By default it is ALL keto. Your choice to post here and get replies from people who keep keto.

[amwassil]

Good bye.

[lfod14]

There is a tendency on this site for people to drift into their self-devised hobby horses and proselytize to others.

NO! Here???