JUNE 2018 IF/EF chat - all welcome

(Liz ) #305

:kissing_heart:

(Steve) #306

Hmm. Thus far, the “switching it up” thing of feasting for 3 days, then fasting, to maximize weight loss, really hasn’t seemed to have worked. The rebound after refeeding was 4.2 pounds the first day, 3.8 pounds the next, 0.5 pounds the next (so levelling off). Making the delta to this morning for that effort only about 2 pounds. Going to feed for one more day (today), then start fasting again.

Now, I’ve been less active Wed/Thursday as we had all of the family events around my Grandfather taking up our time (also, packed keto foods…but no salads). And (full disclosure) I actually had alcohol. :open_mouth: My one cousin was having an especially hard time of it, so we went to the bar and I had a couple doubles of Glen Morangie (yep, so that stopped my liver from doing good things for about 4 hours while it processed that).

Back on the fasting horse later on today after two higher calorie meals.

Edit: Hmm…or should I feast for 3 days again? (as the weight gain this am was marginal, that means my body has re-raised my BMR from where it lowered it, once it realized I was fasting). Should I feast for 3 days to lull it into the higher BMR again?

(that means it take 3 full days for my body to realize I’m fasting - so I get 3 days of pretty significant weight loss, then lowering of my BMR but only 2 days to realize that food is plentiful again, so raising my BMR)

(Ellie) #307

I could be wrong but it is my understanding that metabolism is raised during fasting. Theoretically based on our ancestor’s need to find food urgently after some days of none being available. I think this was referred to in the Obesity code podcast.

(Ellie) #308

https://idmprogram.com/fix-broken-metabolism/

4 consecutive days of fasting raises basal metabolism by 13%.

(Steve) #309

Then why do we rebound so much with weight gain after an EF? (and why does the rate of weight loss slow to a trickle after 3 days?)

Pretty sure Megan Ramos said the same as I did in that switching it up episode on the dudes podcast.

(Ellie) #310

Why does my weight do what it does any of the time? It constantly baffles me!
I suspect the weight bounce is more the physical weight of the food in my stomach and water that (TMI here) goes straight through me when I am fasting but is slowed down when I am not.
That is the problem with scales, they weight everything.

#311

Yes, agree with Ellie - I think that weight gain after an IF is probably not fat but water and food (because much of the weight lost in a 3-ish day fast is probably water and food!). There are folks on here who report incredible losses in extended fasts but generally the estimates seem to be half pound of fat/day.
@fischersd, I didn’t follow all of your numbers, but if you lost - say - 9 pounds in a 4-day fast, then 2 of that might have been fat and the rest just food and water, so when you eat again, most of that will come back. But if you end up with a 2 lb loss, that’s great - might be two pounds of fat that you won’t see again!
54%20AM

54%20AM

Which seems pretty awesome to me :slight_smile:

#312

Yesterday I ate lunch and dinner. I’m tracking, which I never do, and it’s sobering! I’m used to a lot of food. This was over 3000 calories and way too much protein, and I wasn’t even particularly full. I was planning a pre-fast feast day, but it was probably a relatively normal day of eating for me. I think I should probably track for a while after my upcoming fast to get a better feel. Not so much calories but for macros, since I’m getting way more protein than I need.
Anyway, I’m planning now a 5-day fast and today is day 1. I’m hoping to use the cooking/eating/clean up time to recover from an intense work stretch - finally take care of stuff that’s been accumulating for a while. Would love to come out of this clear and open and well-rested.

(back and doublin' down) #313

This is great info! One of my many reasons for EFs is to care for my metabolism, which has been wrecked by decades of yo-yo dieting.

And, I too average about a 1/2 lb of loss each day of a fast, and thankfully the scale says most of that is fat loss. Love my cannibalizing body! Agree that the weight after is a combination of retention once refeeding.

Switching up when I fast or feed is nice too, planning around different events. I see a 48 hr fast before the 4th of July holiday, feast on that day and then fast the rest of the week (or IFs) headed into my vacation.

Youtube...IF
(Allie) #314

I think I may have just figured out why I’m struggling to do any EF at the moment and am having to just do OMAD (evening meal). All of this month I’ve been doing a 100 squats a day challenge and my legs are showing nice changes, but are also very tired… just one more day now thankfully! I bet this is why my body has been asking for fuel more :weight_lifting_woman:

(Central Florida Bob ) #315

This will be a bit long because I’ve never been to this thread, despite being on the Dudes’ forum quite a while. I was talking with Beth, @KCKeto yesterday, and she suggested I post here.

Quick background - I’m a 64 y.o. retired guy. Been keto since at least April of '15, and trying to lose weight basically since I got out of high school. I’ve never been diagnosed diabetic, but I’ve been called pre-diabetic with fasting BG of 110 about 10 years ago. Once I was retired, Christmas of '15, I went to IF and OMAD, but (strangely) the thing that got me to my milestone of 50 pounds lost was after I had emergency gall bladder removal two years ago.

A couple of weeks ago, I had a moment where I had to say KCKO wasn’t working; that the “water weight” fluctuations on the scale were mostly leaning right and rarely leaning to lower weights, and I had to honestly say I might have put on 5 to 7 pounds since the first of the year. My scale said 217 that morning. So two weeks ago, I started “cutting back”. I was having two meals a day about half the time, but my “lazy keto” was that I’d have a late night snack - like before bed - which is something almost nobody recommends (Dr. Sears - the Zone - did, which is probably where I got that habit). So I cut out eating after dinner, 4 or 5 hours before bed, and cut back the added-on fat a little.

A week ago Wednesday the scale might have shown one pound lost - 216.

Last weekend, I did more reading on extended fasting and decided to try alternate day fasting. The site I read said that on your off days, just keep calories under 500, so “significantly under” your eating days. Last Sunday was my first total fast day, and I fasted from Saturday night at 5 until Monday at 11 or 12, or about 42 hours. Another justification for ADF was Dr. Fung’s Obesity Code saying they usually treat their patients with ADF and reserve longer fasts for more seriously diabetic patients.

I’ve decided to eat Mon, Weds, Fri and Sat and fast Sun, Tues, Thurs. Today wraps up the first week, and I haven’t eaten yet. Last Weds, as I said, the scale was 216. This morning it was 210. I’ve always read that half of what you lose is probably not real, but 3 pounds in 10 days is a still pretty good for me.

Of course, you learn how to do this as you go. Last Sunday, my evening prescriptions and supplements made me sick to my stomach, and I had both some bone broth and an ounce of macadamia nuts. Definite emphasis on fat and low protein/carbs. On Tuesday’s fast, after reading here a bunch, I cut back what I was taking (cut some supplements) but 45 minutes or so later got an upset stomach again and had about a teaspoon of Kerry Gold sweet butter. It worked well and was (obviously) a lot less intake. Last night, I preemptively had a little more butter and had no stomach upset.

The butter was a suggestion from someone here, but I also read to have a small green salad. I might try that.

This is easy fasting. My intake is two cups of coffee in the morning with HWC (about a tablespoon between them). A few months ago, I measured my blood sugar in response to artificial sweeteners (mostly erythritol) and found no effect, so I haven’t cut them out or my one diet A&W root beer a day. I have tea or other drinks during the day and add about half teaspoon of salt. Once I get the evening upset stomach thing ironed out, if it isn’t now, I think I can keep doing this.

Another post on weight loss or lack of
(back and doublin' down) #316

I think you can too! Had followed the CICO thread and glad you’ve found this one. Fewer debates, more support!

(Beth) #317

Way to go, @CFLBob!!! That’s gotta feel great!
I fasted 36 hours on MWFs last fall and lost at about the same rate as you for everal weeks. It worked pretty well for me until I fell off the wagon during the holidays & had a hard time getting back on.
Awesome to hear you feel like it’s sustainable. That is the key for me. Congratulations!:tada::champagne::balloon:

#318

Just coming on to say that I’m midday way through day 1 (so really I’m barely fasted, though it’s a nice 18 hours so far) but I feel good and very grateful for this forum and all of you. Happy fasting, all!

#319

@Jacymac thanks for that info- it explains it really well! I’ve read up on stuff but it goes in & straight out again (no brain clarity for me, lol!), I can use it to educate my family!!
@CFLBob - great that you’ve found something which is working for you, & sustainable! I did ADF (500 cals on FDs as suggested by Michael Moseley), for 4 months last year before I found out about keto, & lost 2 stone.
@Shortstuff- 100 squats a day, I might have to try that!
Had a 42hr fast in the end- scales were friendly today & am on maintenance weight, might do OMAD next week.

(Allie) #320

@jules4 it’s been challenging but I’m glad I did it. Last day today. Some days I managed close to 200, but other days I’ve really had to fight to hit the 100.

(Central Florida Bob ) #321

That’s quite a lot of weight, @jules4 . Google tells me 2 stone is 28 pounds, so that’s 7 pounds/month. I’m used to having read that 1 pound a week is considered good weight loss. Of course, that’s from the Standard Advise, which is entirely CICO and brought to you by the same folks who brought you the High Carb, Low Fat diet, so 1lb/week is probably just as sound as that advise.

As I expected, after my feasting day, that 6 pounds down looks closer to 3, but that’s OK, it’s still progress. I’ll eat today, too, then go back to ADF until next weekend.

And for the first time eating two days in a row, seems strange! :rofl:

(Jane) #322

This belongs on the “You know you are a ketoer when” thread!
:rofl:

(Allie) #323

July thread created :heart:

(Lisa F) #324

Thanks! It turns out it isn’t Keto Rash but something called Pityriasis rosea - probably due to the combined stress of fasting, work stress and starting to work out with a trainer. My immune system got weakened and it’s likely viral.