Fat Adapted and Still Excreting Ketones in Urine: Survey 🔎

split this topic #69

4 posts were split to a new topic: Studies using ketone salts and esters

(Mark Rhodes) #73

I will test high during a longer fast. Once my BHB goes above 3.0mmol and BRace goes past 75 PPM I will definitely piss out ketones. I have maintained that this was an effective measure of showing how the body is preparing for the ultimate energy emergency by producing excess ketones BUT ridding the body of them quickly if the need for them was not apparent, thus preventing any type of ketoacidosis issue.

I have nothing but n=1 to back that up.

(Michael - When reality fails to meet expectations, the problem is not reality.) #74

I just tested urine again Jun03::1:30pm at 1.5 mmol/L. Same as yesterday’s reading at about this same time. I had previous taken a BrAce sample about 10 minutes earlier of 11.4 ppm. This is the day’s BrAce low point so far, falling slowly since the day’s peak at 05:25 of 21.8 ppm. I’ve spent the morning fairly inactively and the slowly falling BrAce concentrations are typical, although still within my normal 10-20 ppm range. I expect the concentration to rise during the afternoon and evening while I’m at work expending lots more energy. I will also be swishing a few spoonfuls of coconut oil. :stuck_out_tongue_closed_eyes:

#75

I don’t believe it because you get a zero reading on the pee strips it’s because one can get widely varying results from no color to purple and not really telling you anything that important. Mostly depending on hydration level. I can tel you the highest blood reading I got I’m the beginning was 1.8 and I no I was tracking all I ate and the pee strips barely turned any color the darkest of which was a light pink. My better half when she tried keto for 2 months had blood readings in the 2+ regularly. So the strips are just unreliable at best. The best thing to do is to track what you eat and as long as your under your carb threshold your in ketosis and burning fat. How well is up to you and your diet.

Also checkout the FASTER study by Volek. Many of the long term fat adapted athletes were showing blood
reading below the .5 range and still were burning the most fat.

(Jane) #76

First data point from me since I finally picked up some pee sticks.

20 hours fasted on a (hopefully) multi-day fast this week.

Pee stick - between Small and Moderate (15-40)

BG: 75
BK: 1.9

(Michael - When reality fails to meet expectations, the problem is not reality.) #77

A reminder to @RedThain and any others who either haven’t bothered to read the OP or have forgotten what we’re doing with this survey, allow me to reiterate:

We are testing whether or not this specific claim is true. That’s all. We are NOT testing whether or not the urine test sticks are reliable and/or accurate. In addition, I’ve asked those who do blood tests and/or BrAce tests to do those tests in proximity to their urine tests and give us some additional data. This is possibly to note anything interesting that might warrant further examination. We are NOT testing whether or not urine test sticks give data that corresponds to data obtained by other test methods.

I think it is clear by the responses so far, that we have pretty much refuted the claim. Other issues introduced by various posters may become the bases of additional surveys and/or experiments. For one, I would like to know what factors cause some fat adapted individuals to dump acetoacetate and/or the other ketones in urine and others apparently not. For two, I would like to know what factors control the amount of ketones dumped in urine and/or why and how excess ketones are synthesized only to end up dumped. For three, I would like to know if excess ketone dumping actually does diminish over time, albeit far longer than anyone so far has reported. In other words, if the refuted claim actually IS true, but only after many years of fat adaptation.

Keto strips test results
(Jane) #78

Another data point:

Pee strips - solid Moderate 40
BK: 3.6

Fasted 32 hours when data was collected.

This is in line with what I’ve seen on previous fasts - ketones gradually rise over time and my blood and pee strips are rising this time also.

It makes sense to me - I am only consuming water and coffee so the energy to drive my body must come from my own fat stores. Burning that fat produces ketones as a side effect and it shows up on pee sticks and blood tests.

Why wouldn’t it? At least in a fasted state like I am now.

Since we are testing the theory of colorless pee sticks after fat-adaptation I would like a scientific explanation on how my body could be fueling itself from its own fat stores since I am consuming practically no calories, no carbs, no protein and no fat (for the purists who count macros in coffee) and NOT be spilling excess ketones into my urine.

According to the theory my body should be ONLY burning enough fat so than none are wasted in my urine and only show up in my blood? Or am I understanding the theory wrong?

(Jane) #79

I should add my background info to this data thread:

Been eating keto since Dec 2017, so 17 months. Lost 35 lbs and have maintained it for a year. Been fat-adapted since around 2 months. Fast anywhere from 36-100 hours on a regular basis. I am 60 years old and post-menopausal.

(Dennis) #80

Been doing LCHF off and on for about 16 years. Been pretty strict keto for the past 15 months, the last 9 of which, I’ve tested for BHB with Keto Mojo at least a few times per week. I have always shown color changes with the urine sticks, except when I knew that I wasn’t in ketosis. I know they’re not accurate, but for me they continue to give a reliable yes/no answer. Like many others have written here, the longer I’m fat adapted the less frequently I see high blood BHB levels like I used to.

(Jane) #81

I only get trace when I am eating normal keto but fasting multiple days is a whole nuther animal. 40 hours in and cruising today with little to no hunger.

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(Michael - When reality fails to meet expectations, the problem is not reality.) #82

LOL. You’re like a child throwing food out the car window as the family cruises to the summer cottage! :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye: Your β-hydroxybutyrate looks like a big overflowing picnic basket. In other words: ketone abundance. My bet: if you had the means to measure it you’d have substantial BrAce as well (guess: 20-40 ppm).

(Jane) #83

Probably! I usually hit blood ketones between 6 and 7 by day 3 of fasting and BG in the 50-60’s.

It’s been a fun experiment - haven’t measured urine ketones in several months and not at all when fasting since I have a Keto Mojo. I never bought any more pee sticks when they ran out.

I picked up a box of 50 for $11 and next to it was a box of 100 on sale for $12. As tempting as it was… I passed on it because they would expire before I ever used them up. If I’d known a newbie starting keto I totally would have grabbed the box of 100 and given most away.

Help for a newbie 😜 Very high ketones
#84

I have similar experience but no data besides blood ketones. TMI: I can just smell the difference in urine and breath.

(Jane) #85

Last night my pee strip was a bit lighter than after my walk in the hot sun (was probably a bit dehydrated) but still in the large 80-range. Blood ketones 3.9

(Jane) #86

This morning pee stix back to very dark. Blood ketones at 6.7, blood glucose at 57. I am 59 hours in on my fast and these are typical BK and BG numbers for my third day.

(Empress of the Unexpected) #87

Woke up to a small pee strip reading and 0.5 ketones. At two in the afternoon, pee strip was trace and ketones 2.0. Now that could be a hydration issue. Because usually the strips go darker as my blood levels go higher. BG 89 upon waking and 93 an hour after lunch.

#88

Right, can’t resist an experiment! :slightly_smiling_face:

I had 3.4 ketones late this morning and BGL is 5.
I was turning the colour on the stick to the second highest it registered, so not trace ketones in urine, lots of ketones.
The print is way too small for me to read.
I am in Oz so you need to translate 5 for US blood sugar readings (if you are after a precise number). Sorry I don’t have a table for that (and am a bit pressed for time currently) but 5 is well within normal blood glucose range. If I get a translator I will come back and edit it in in US numbers.

(Bob M) #89

Just multiply by 18, 5x18=90.

I have almost two thousand samples, some combination of blood, breath, urine ketones or blood sugar. Here are some more. Note at 60 hours fasting, I’m only at 0.6 in the morning. It goes, date, time, ketones (Precision Xtra at that time), ketonix, urine, blood sugar (from my old blood sugar meter, which I don’t remember what it was but still have it). Personally, after 3+ years of testing and almost 1,900 samples, I’ve given up on testing. It’s not useful.

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#90

Thank you for the formula Bob M. :grinning:

(Empress of the Unexpected) #91

Per stick trace. Blood ketones .9