Fat Adapted and Still Excreting Ketones in Urine: Survey šŸ”Ž

(Empress of the Unexpected) #21

Thank you! And thank you for responding, the guys are ignoring me, even though I am the first eager experimenter to step forward. Yeah, three days of restaurant meals, keto, but god knows what the stir frye was cooked in. Give me a week and I will prove, beyond a shadow of a doubt, that pee sticks correlate with blood strips. And, most importantly, that the cleaner keto one eats, the better the results. Ketone production is good for the body and the brain.

You the Mars bar chick, me the English muffin chick. My muffins are probably worse than your Mars bars!

(Empress of the Unexpected) #22

I would say no. Because the theory is that you canā€™t fast until you are fat-adapted, and that when you are fat-adapted, you donā€™t register pee sticks. So you would be a prime example.

#23

Amy Berger, noted keto blogger and nutritionist, says she still uses pee sticks (after years of keto/LCHF eating) and she still gets results with them.

(Empress of the Unexpected) #24

Oh, and I can say this on this thread. Itā€™s called the ketogenic forums - yet half of these good folk have never tested. Which is okay. But I love measuring stuff. I should have bought stock in pregnancy tests!!

(Michael - When reality fails to meet expectations, the problem is not reality.) #25

Iā€™m not going to cite refs just yet, still examining and evaluating. But I have already seen several papers that confirm the correlation between urine ketones (acetoacetate, Ī²-hydroxybutyrate primarily and even acetone) and blood Ī²-hydroxybutyrate. So I look forward to your numbers. I am going to continue monitoring urine ketones and BrAce, which yesterday and today are below my normal values for some still unknown reason.

BTW, I am very happy that you have taken a firm interest in this and are willing and eager to do the testing and reporting. Thank you very much.

@Janie Fasting might add some interesting data. So please do!

(Empress of the Unexpected) #26

This is my new favorite thread. Ketones seem to be a hush hush topic on these forums. I like finding out that ā€œsuspectā€ stir-frye sauce lowers ketones. In fact, there have been days where I have eaten cottage cheese and still had good numbers . So every food affects people differently.

And you say test a couple times a day. Would waking up, and then testing when you know you are highest, be of value? When do you want people to test?

(You've tried everything else; why not try bacon?) #27

Beware of getting caught up in the numbers game. It is irrelevant how much of our ketone bodies get wasted in breath or urine, or how much are circulating in our blood, what is important is that our liver is producing them and organs that need them are using them (brain, especially). We tell people to expect reduced excretion of ketone bodies simply to stop them panicking unduly when the number drops, as it quite often does, with fat-adaptation.

One reason for continued high readings in breath and urine is, as Prof. Bikman points out, that the body is perfectly capable of wasting energy when abundantly supplied. Excreted ketone bodies can represent a fair amount of energy, too.

Ideally, I suppose, we should be measuring all three ketone bodies in all three venues: breath, blood, and urine.

(Alec) #28

Yes, but it would be a really interesting experiment. Go for it, guys. I would love to see the results.

(Allie) #29

Theyā€™re useless because theyā€™re not an accurate measure. Get a high reading, drink a pint of water, retest an hour later, totally different reading. Too many variables to be useful, but they still register ketones.

(JJ) #30

Going into my 7 month of keto.
Last night at work just before 4am, large ketones on urinalysis, Blood ketone Levels 2.1 mmol/l. BGL 3.6mmol/l
I actually ate after that, around the time I was replying to your reply on another thread;-)

I donā€™t know the numerical reference values for our urine dipsticks at work, will have a look tonight, it was the second to highest colour on the ketone panel though. Interestingly enough, I always seem to get at least moderate ketones on urinalysis, I had thought it would stop showing up after all this time.

(JJ) #31

I love to measure too!
I work in health and we have the dipsticks in our staff toilet cubicle, so of course I am going to pee in a cup and dipstick just for giggles :wink: Once though, I thought my liver was ā€˜carking itā€™ (Australian for dying) as the lid had been left off the container and the strips exposed to the light, which gave me an insane urobilinogen level.

(mole person) #32

Lolā€¦ Iā€™ve been good lately. Itā€™s been a month and a half! Carnivore does seem to help.

Iā€™m very interested in seeing the results of your experiment!! Keep us posted.

(mole person) #33

Thatā€™s exactly what some of us do not find though. My liver is producing ketones even when Iā€™m eating daily Mars bars but Iā€™m also getting fatter if I do that while otherwise eating ketogenically. So just knowing that Iā€™m producing ketones is actually a fairly useless piece of information when fat loss is my goal. I need to know my level of ketosis and that actually tracks extremely well with my pee stick readings even after two years as long as I measure in a consistent manner (same time of day, similar hydration).

I actually think some people fail on this diet because they think they are doing everything right and see that they are in mild ketosis and think thatā€™s all thatā€™s necessary for weight loss. They wonder why they are completely stalled while still 50 lbs overweight or even gaining and decide the diet just doesnā€™t work for them afterall.

I think weā€™ve gotten two things confused. Itā€™s true that not everyone will show the same levels. Some people just donā€™t get as high as others. But everyone has a range and that range does matter to the individual. When you get a higher reading you are burning more fats and as long as you arenā€™t overeating fats some of them are coming from your body. Iā€™ve checked this on myself repeatedly. Trace or small ketones for a week on me always had the scale going in the wrong direction. It was like clockwork.

Amy Berger recently did a video on kidding yourself on keto where she basically said that she still finds the urine strips useful for keeping herself honest. Itā€™s exactly what Iā€™ve found. Itā€™s still a good tool.

#34

THIS ^^.

Getting into a pissing contest (literally!) with others about ketones of all kinds is fun but can be misleading or downright discouraging if you come up short on the stick. Observing the daily, monthly, yearly changes in your body and using that data to make informed decisions about your diet can be incredibly helpful.

[Iā€™m not saying this experiment is a ******* contest. Looking forward to results.]

(less is more, more or less) #35

Iā€™m a broken recordĀ¹ on this:

I have never turned those damn pee sticks color

Iā€™m tired of peeing on the damn things. Iā€™m done, and I wonā€™t pee on them, ever again, unless directed to for some specific, doctor-related reason.

Iā€™m low-carb, and I approach my second year in a few days. I have every other indication of success on low-carb eating, sticks be damned.

Ā¹ (for you kids) https://youtu.be/cqtb6XBBBRc

(mole person) #36

This cracked me up. Iā€™m not a kid, and Iā€™d still forgotten!

(Empress of the Unexpected) #37

Ok, Ignore Regina, just ignore Regina. (Pssstt - she hasnā€™t a clue what she is talking about.)

BG84
Ketones - all time high 2.7
Only between trace and small on the pee stickā€¦

I think the 2.7 is due to heavy gardening before a noon meal of bacon and cheese. I donā€™t feel any different then I do at lower numbers.

(Empress of the Unexpected) #38

Question re fat adaptation. Iā€™ve been eating keto for over a year. I am leaving not needing to eat out of the equation, because some days Iā€™m not really hungry, other days ravenous. But if fat adaptation is a thing, then surely I must be somewhat on my way after a year.

Here is why I think I am. Some newbies who eat carbs report it takes them a week to get back into ketosis. My carbs from yesterday and the day before did lower my ketone level from the usual, but today I bounced back even higher. I would think that meant my body had a degree of metabolic flexibility. Thoughts?

(Empress of the Unexpected) #39

But, what about blood ketones? I just reported between trace and small, yet I had my highest blood reading ever. The plot thickensā€¦

(mole person) #40

I donā€™t measure blood at all. I never felt the need, the urine strips work for me and are cheap.