Dry Fasting. Is there any science to this?

#177

That’s a useful study - FWD by the way is Food & Water DEPRIVATION, not restriction. So it definitely is dry fasting as it says in the full text of the study.

And they specifically mention dry fasting…

5 days of FWD contain a triple risk: hypovolemia, hypertonicity, and hypoglycemia. However, our participants have tolerated the dry fasting well and none of them showed hypotension or any noteworthy disorder in HR, SatO2, electrolyte concentration, serum osmolality, and glucose level. It seems that a potent hormonal and nervous contra-regulation results in the effective management of FWD risks.

Correct, it does not compare dry to water fasting, it’s a study on the impact of dry fasting on body measurements and vitals.

The fact that it’s only 10 people doesn’t mean much - you’re not going to find large double-blind studies on dry fasting given that there is little commercial gain to be made from such a study. We have to make do with what we have.

(Keto Travels) #178

Ah yes, those are nice abs … I just turn of the sound, because that is distracting from the visuals so I have no idea how qualified his opinion may be … :joy:

And to inject some more abs and lightness into this tread: http://www.emilywrites.co.nz/i-saw-tarzan-and-this-is-my-review-after-some-wines/ - I quote: “Ok so I don’t know what the plot is or who is in it other than Alexander Skarsgard and Alexander Skarsgard’s magnificent holy abs. I don’t know what the dialogue or acting is like or whatever.”

Yes, exactly that. And no annyoing attempt to distract anyone with science or pseudo-science or whatever either. :heart_eyes:

(Anti-Gravity Gains) #179

I am about 12-14% BF and exercise alot. I haven’t found solid science in it yet that convinces me that a 1:3 dry to water fast ratio is accurate. But if I waited around for solid 100% scientific proof on everything, 1/2 of my wellness gains would not have come to fruition. I did a 36.5 hour dry fast followed by water and salt until 44 hours. Felt great up to about 20 hours then tired. I lifted weights at 40 hours and had no issues. (2nd day, 2nd wind experienced much like it does for me that 2nd morning on water fasts). Broke water fast with broth and then trickled in some calories followed by a good sized meal. Followed all this up with another 18 hour dry fast which included a 6 mile run at 10 hours dry fasted. Dare to experiment. 14-20 hours dry fasting is probably not the riskiest thing in the world. But as always, check with your doctor, your mother-in-law, your dog, etc before doing anything.

(Mel Simpson) #180

I have tried to get info from Doctor Fung regarding dry fasting and the only thing that I could find is him saying that he doesn’t get his patients to dry fast for medical reasons. His patients are diabetics extremely insulin resistant and generally sick. Most have never even fasted before even intermittent fasting. If you have any information from dr. Fung saying that dry fasting is bad can you give it to us or let us know where to find it. I have been hunting for this information from him and anyone else who is Credible and can’t find anything. I have done a 36 hour dry fast and it felt really good. I would love more information on this.

(Allie) #181

It was on one of the podcasts I heard him on and was just him saying he doesn’t recommend dry fasting for anyone.

(Mel Simpson) #182

Do you remember the podcast? I heard him say he doesn’t recommend dry fasting for his patients for medical reasons.

(Mel Simpson) #183

She did back it up

(Allie) #184

No chance :joy:
I’m constantly listening to different podcasts and this was sometime last summer.

(Doug) #185

I would love to see some real science and sound reasoning behind the concept. Yet so much of it seems - my opinion - to be the same old thing, “something for nothing,” i.e. magically speed stuff up by just leaving out water. Lots of people have latched onto the “1 day dry fasting is the same as 3 days of fasting with water.”

Good grief - just think about that.

(Diane) #186

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I found this on the IDM website.

(Diane) #187

And this is a quote from Dr. Fung’s Complete Guide to Fasting:

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(Doug) #188

Unless one is really perspiring, I don’t think going sunrise to sundown is that big a deal. Even going 24 hours – I do it sometimes when regular fasting, drink a cup or two of black coffee in the morning, and maybe nothing the rest of the day. Come next morning boom there’s a 24 hour “dry” fast.

Had to laugh today - was on a Facebook discussion and there was talk of “metabolic water” as if water is created by releasing free hydrogen when we break down fats, that hydrogen then combining with oxygen (and oxygen is free - we just breathe it in…).

I had never really looked at this, but here’s a representation from one pro-dry fasting website:

MetabolicWater
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Like that H₂O is already in there, just waiting to come out… :smile:

What it really is is that the stuff circled in blue is not there when it’s a fat, a triglyceride like we store fat in our bodies.

Triglyceride
Triglyceride.jpg777×363 78.2 KB

There’s a triglyceride. The rightmost O (oxygen) on the glycerol molecule will be bonded to the leftmost C (carbon) on the fatty acid, now we have a triglyceride.

When we use our own fat, we break apart the triglyceride molecule. This is lipolysis, and in humans it’s also hydrolysis. :sunglasses: Now the stuff in blue in the first picture comes into play, H₂O giving one H to glycerol and the remaining OH to the fatty acid. This happens three times since there’s three fatty acids per triglyceride molecule. So we’re not actually ‘magically’ making water by burning our own fat, we’re actually consuming it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VUsRld1K8Eo = Thomas DeLauer saying the same stuff… :roll_eyes:

(Running from stupidity) #189

How can you argue with a complicated-looking diagram by using actual knowledge? Not really how it works on FB…

(Bunny) #190

This is like the water solubility vs. fat solubility thing we were talking about before!

0% of the human body is water, not one millimeter is composed of water. (e. berg. et al) 100% of the human body is composed of electrolyte fluids (blood, urine, lymphocytes, bone etc.):

  1. Sodium (Na+)
  2. Chloride (Cl-)
  3. Potassium (K+)
  4. Magnesium (Mg++)
  5. Calcium (Ca++)
  6. Phosphate (HPO4–)
  7. Bicarbonate (HCO3-)

All more water soluble besides the other essentials and trace elements like selenium, zinc, iodine, copper, fluoride, chromium, vanadium, iron…etc…

But there is one more mineral not on the list of electrolytes (above) that actually helps the body convert fat soluble substances into a water soluble substance:

  1. Organic Sulfur/Sulphur

Fatty or oily substances that have missing electrons have a diminished ability to associate with proteins (to achieve water solubility) like fat soluble vitamins and toxins that get stored in the bodies fat cells much longer in contrast to a water soluble substance that get stored in the tissue of internal organs like the liver.

Sudden drop in weight from consuming organic sulfur?

Consuming organic sulfur may also put the sulfur back into the insulin where it belongs to de-glycate hemoglobin (hba1c) or the damage done from advanced glycation end products (too much sugar) …a very lose hypothesis for now!

If we pour cold water on a block of lard it just runs off; nothing really happens?

If we boil the water with the lard, it floats on top of the water in the form of an oil?

So water always separates from fat!

I can see no benefit (autophagy or otherwise) of NOT drinking water as opposed to drinking water when you are simply THIRSTY; when fasting extensively other than supposedly dehydrating your body to show more hypertrophy if you are a competitive body builder?

…And you DO NOT want to drink too much water (electrolyte depletion) when you are not thirsty either?

(Bacon is a many-splendoured thing) #192

It certainly wasn’t, in my experience. I certainly wouldn’t try dry fasting for 24 hours or longer, however.

(Doug) #193

:smile: They blocked me from further commenting. (as if they actually can… :stuck_out_tongue:)

Bunny, I always ask if anybody has any actual science behind the notion that dry fasting is better than water fasting. Maybe there is something out there - and I’d like to see it - but thus far no takers. Just weird quasi-religious stuff, wishful thinking, talking about the effects of fasting and attributing it to dry fasting while implying that water faster doesn’t do it, nebulous references to Russian doctors and scientists, etc.

I think a lot of it is the same old human desire for fast results, an easy way out, ‘something for nothing,’ a “magic pill,” etc.

(bulkbiker) #194

Urine is an aqueous solution of greater than 95% water.

yep no water there then…

Oh dear…

(Bunny) #195

I think about it like this; fat soluble mass and other jelly like substances in the body have a little water stored (encapsulated) inside them, but itself is not composed of water molecules, electrochemical fluids forming solids are not water or a state of mass in constant change or turn-over, it is water passing through or around the solid structures or helping move substances through something, taking anything water soluble with it, if actual mass was water weight, that big giant juicy steak you threw on the grill would turn into a tiny sliver…lol

(bulkbiker) #196

Which is exactly what happens to the big juicy steak on the grill… weigh it before and after cooking…

(Bunny) #197

I think Delauer has a good take on the science behind dry fasting:

”…Quickly, dry fasting is where you’re not consuming food or water for a given period of time. If you didn’t watch my previous video let me explain why this is important, when you are dry fasting your body has no choice but to start pulling hydrogen from your fat cells in order to create water. That’s right, your body creates its own molecular water so when you’re in a state of dehydration, not that I’m recommending you do this all the time, your body has no choice but to pull hydrogen from fat, combined it with the air that you breath, and extract oxygen and then combined it to make H2O, it literally creates water so therefore your body actually burns more fat because it actually has to break down the fat into usable hydrogen atoms. …” …More

Also why some competitive body builders dry fast to show more definition before a comp…

Always the one who does the dry fast, is usually the one that wins the comp! Lol