Dry Fasting. Is there any science to this?


(Brian) #154

Do any of you know whether Dr. Fung has talked about this enough to state the “why” of him not being a fan of dry fasting? I’ve heard him say that but have never heard him flesh it out. Thought maybe someone else here might have.

He is one of the major gurus of the fasting world, and with real, clinical experience, so I don’t blow off his thoughts without a serious reason.


#155

The problem I see with the idea of dry fasting is kidney stones. Kidney stones develop when you don’t get enough water and they don’t manifest themselves right away. So you can have one start during a dry fast and not feel the end result until several years later.


(Dan Dan) #156

I have 1 indulgence day a week which usually ends with a 1 pound slice of chocolate fudge mountain cake from my favorite restaurant .

I used water only fasts to get back into ketosis which takes up to 3 days then I came across an old epilepsy study that used water deprivation and dry fasting to induce ketosis in less than 24 hrs. So I tried it starting at midnight and by 6 pm the next day I was in ketosis I have dry fasted since.

This Saturday I went to the Opera in the morning had Chinese for lunch A Burger and Fries for dinner and took home 1 pound slice of chocolate fudge mountain cake for a midnight snack (my friend forced me) I dry fasted and by 8 pm Sunday was back in ketosis. I have eaten 1 pound of breaded chicken (It was on sale) as part of my DryFast OMAD everyday this week and have stayed in ketosis .

I’m beginning to think I’m a freak :thinking:


(bulkbiker) #157

I’m guessing because it could be dangerous (law suits) and he probably thinks it is unnecessary. He also advocates only fasting under medical supervision (which of course most people ignore). If however he advocated for dry fasting and someone died? His credibility would be completely shot.

Edit to add although of course if we sleep through the night we are of course dry fasting for 7-8 hours anyway (depending on sleep time of course).


(So much bacon . . . so little time . . .) #158

Do you have a link? That would be very interesting to read. Especially since wet fasting also promotes ketosis. It would be interesting to know what difference restricting liquid makes and why.


(Brian) #159

I can appreciate that. We sometimes go for 10 or 12 hours without even a thought, like you said, usually through the night.

It might be that people would take that to mean that if you can do dry fasting for 10 to 12 hours, that 10 to 12 days would be better. (Yikes!) But people really do make those kinds of mental leaps.

I do wonder if Iced had a legitimate point about kidney stones.


#160

I would like to see some solid studies regarding this before I ever try it myself.
Anyone that works with ER/Urgent departments will have hundreds if not thousands of stories regarding dehydrated people, and the complications they experience. It is a very common reason for admission.
I’ve seen severe cardiac issues, renal issues, neurological issues including CVA and many other issues up to and including death.
And it doesn’t take some fantasy 11 day dry fast to get them there.

I see no value in even trying this unless there is some serious supportive evidence provided to demonstrate significant benefit that is otherwise unattainable. And the possibility of losing a few extra ounces during a conventional fast is not even remotely enough motivation for me.

I know everyone is into “hacking” their bodies these days, but don’t be stupid.


(Dan Dan) #161

Well I tried to find it but couldn’t bummer.

I went through a phase where I saved everything I read in my favorites but once I got comfortable with self experimentation I stopped. You get lazy because you know what you know like lazy keto :thinking:

Most current research on the ketogenic diet and epilepsy refer to the practice of fluid restriction but note it’s no longer practiced. Like here :https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2656445/


(Robert C) #162

Even with dry fasting’s faster fasting progress, here is a good reason not to do dry fasting (i.e. can you say “Please may I have some kidney stones?”).

Also, this doctor seems to be a good new keto / fasting resource generally (practices what she preaches!).


(KetoQ) #163

Agreed, Killa. You certainly bring a different perspective.

Not being properly hydrated is a very unhealthy thing. Plus, you can certainly lose enough water weight during a wet fast.


#164

My problem with this entire thread is that the 2 main pro-dry fasting videos that have been quoted have cover pics of semi naked men angling their abs to catch the light.

Any grown man who thinks a pic like that is going to support their argument is delusional, and if they are delusional, it may be caused by dehydration.

So not a good advert.

Besides, one of them is stylishly (???) posed in black and white, with a rather silly hat.
'nuff said.

On the subject of water intake, I often go 14-16 hours without drinking (I’m absent minded like that), and yet I am still fat.

Ergo the whole theory is nonsense.
But then we knew that anyway, didn’t we? The abs and the hat already proved it.


(So much bacon . . . so little time . . .) #165

That’s better than I often manage. I have a hard time remembering to save bookmarks, lol! Don’t get old, okay? :grin: And thanks for that link; I’m looking forward to taking a peek at it.

@Brunneria Well, I found the guy with the hat to be incomprehensible, although his links appear quite reliable, and Thomas de Lauer always poses with his abs showing, so that’s nothing new. In the first case, I find that poor writing usually follows poor thinking. As for Mr. de Lauer, he may well know what he’s talking about, but I have a weakness for men with stunning abs and find it hard to concentrate on anything they say. That’s probably a good thing, however, since I could easily be swayed, otherwise. :grinning::grinning::grinning:


#166

I find stunning abs distracting too. :grin:
But I’m never very interested in the thoughts and ideas of the ab owners… tends to ruin the moment.

Mind you, even the abs wouldn’t get me past the hat absurdity. I thought those went out with moodily shot 90s Boy Band album covers…

Or have they come back in, and I am showing my decrepitude? Again. :joy:


(Dan Dan) #167

In studies of those with epilepsy on a strict Ketogenic Diet with fluid restriction 2 to 4 percent had stones so they decided to no longer use strict keto and fluid restriction. I wonder why with such success they would change their methodology and why bury the research and only casually mention it. (13% of men and 7% women get stones children have lower incidence of stones)

Could it be that on a strict Ketogenic diet and/or water restriction you don’t need and/or can’t take those high priced drugs :face_with_monocle::thinking:

Why manage/cure/prevent your disease by natural means when you can take a pill :thinking:

Don’t you love the scaremongering videos/studies paid by big pharma, big business and the medical community that says trust us we know better - like carbs are good and fat is bad and about those eggs - are they good this year or bad I lost track?

Because I question everything when I come across a cover up I have to research and/or try it, that’s how I found IF/EF Keto and dry fasting :sunglasses:

I have learned to listen to my body and now naturally practice ADF/OMAD 44/4 and Dry Fast 20/4 but If I’m physically hungry or thirsty I will eat and drink whenever - this week has been OMAD 20/4 - no big deal :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye:

I enjoy sharing my thoughts and experiments if you get something out of it ok if not that’s ok too :grinning:

Please remember YMMV :thinking:

“May the Force (fat adaption) be with you”

IF/EF Keto WOE is Self-Discovery :wink:

Good luck and much success in your journey in IF/EF Keto WOE :grin:


#168

I gave that some thought, as I’ve had kidney stones in the past. I could be wrong, but my understanding is that the stuff kidney stones are made of come from things you ingest and I’m not ingesting anything during the dry fast. As others may have mentioned, you also continue to urinate (flush things out) when you dry fast.


#169

Another benefit I’m noticing with this particular dry fast is that I have had ZERO hunger/hunger pangs and this is day-2 of my fasting (the first day was a water fast). My second fasting days are always, by far, the worse for me hunger-wise and I’m usually munching salt through the day to counter it. I’m also even more clear-headed and alert than usual during fasts. I honestly can’t get over the complete lack of hunger. I don’t know if this is a freak one-off or if it’s an effect of the dry fast, but should know the next time or 2 that I try it. I am paying very close attention to my body and any discomfort or red flags will be taken very seriously (end of dry fast). I am planning on ending it at 24 hours and don’t think I’d ever push my luck past 48 max until more solid evidence of the benefits/safety are available.

I found this interesting article with links to some reviews/studies. https://blog.kettleandfire.com/dry-fasting/


(Omar) #170

Muslims do dry fasting for a full month

depending on how far from the equator you live, the fast period from dusk to dawn can be 14 hours or more.

But it is difficult to take any usefull feed back from such eating habits ( dry fasting/refeeding) because of the bad refeeding habits that defeats any potential benefit of dry fasting.


#171

So, my dry fast went beautifully and I ended it at 24-hours and slowly reintroduced water this time. No leg cramps this time around. I am on my 3rd day of fasting (water fasting today) and my stomach is growling like it usually does intermittently when I water fast, so back to munching on pink salt.


(says keto isn't complicated. Sorry, but it just isn't.) #172

Please! Don’t be hattist!


#173

I haven’t been able to make myself watch the videos, as curious as I am about the concept, for this very reason.