Dry Fasting. Is there any science to this?

(Bunny) #195

I think about it like this; fat soluble mass and other jelly like substances in the body have a little water stored (encapsulated) inside them, but itself is not composed of water molecules, electrochemical fluids forming solids are not water or a state of mass in constant change or turn-over, it is water passing through or around the solid structures or helping move substances through something, taking anything water soluble with it, if actual mass was water weight, that big giant juicy steak you threw on the grill would turn into a tiny sliver…lol

(bulkbiker) #196

Which is exactly what happens to the big juicy steak on the grill… weigh it before and after cooking…

(Bunny) #197

I think Delauer has a good take on the science behind dry fasting:

”…Quickly, dry fasting is where you’re not consuming food or water for a given period of time. If you didn’t watch my previous video let me explain why this is important, when you are dry fasting your body has no choice but to start pulling hydrogen from your fat cells in order to create water. That’s right, your body creates its own molecular water so when you’re in a state of dehydration, not that I’m recommending you do this all the time, your body has no choice but to pull hydrogen from fat, combined it with the air that you breath, and extract oxygen and then combined it to make H2O, it literally creates water so therefore your body actually burns more fat because it actually has to break down the fat into usable hydrogen atoms. …” …More

Also why some competitive body builders dry fast to show more definition before a comp…

Always the one who does the dry fast, is usually the one that wins the comp! Lol

(Doug) #198

Unless there is something that I’m totally missing, I think Delauer is just being silly, there. He has hydrogen atoms coming right out of fat - is there any evidence that such a thing actually happens in the human body? I’ve heard similar things from other people in videos, i.e. the body “𝑟𝑒𝑙𝑒𝑎𝑠𝑖𝑛𝑔 𝑓𝑟𝑒𝑒 ℎ𝑦𝑑𝑟𝑜𝑔𝑒𝑛 𝑡𝑜 𝑚𝑎𝑘𝑒 𝑤𝑎𝑡𝑒𝑟.” :roll_eyes:

In a different video, he also puts forth the notion that "water is created by breaking down fat," i.e. splitting triglycerides into glycerol and fatty acids - this concept is echoed across a large majority of pro-dry fasting videos, blogs, articles, etc., in my experience. Here too, I have to say that it’s absolutely false and wrong - in fact, 3 molecules of water are consumed every time we break down a triglyceride molecule.

The only thing that would make sense to me is talking about the endpoint of cellular respiration and metabolism, where water and carbon dioxide are indeed reaction by-products. Yet dry fasters do not present it this way, and even if they did, where is the evidence that it would be any more prevalent than with water fasting? It would have to bypass the limit on the amount of fat we can burn per day per unit of fat mass that we have.

In the end, I think it’s just more BS aimed at getting a lot of views…

(Omar) #199

why not try dry fasting and see for your self.

no harm for one day.

(Doug) #200

Omar - I agree, one day is no danger. I also don’t think it’s enough to find out anything, however. When I’m fasting I will have a cup or two of coffee in the morning, and then maybe nothing else all day. If I’m not perspiring and it’s not hot, then I may not get thirsty. The next morning - boom - there is a one day dry fast, but I never feel any differently than if I was drinking water.

(It's all about the bacon, baby) #201

True, but once the fatty acids have gone through the Krebs cycle and all that ATP has been produced, isn’t water and oxygen all that’s left?

(Doug) #202

Water and carbon dioxide, Paul, but as above that’s going to be the same whether dry fasting or water fasting, or even not fasting at all. I have yet to see any actual science behind dry fasting over water fasting - and I wouldn’t mind if there was.

(It's all about the bacon, baby) #203

CO2, right. Thanks, Doug. And if I’m not mistaken, both get exhaled, right?

(Doug) #204

Good question, Paul - I didn’t know for sure, so had to check. Obviously, we do exhale some water, but do we exhale all the water from cellular respiration? Most of it gets exhaled, but I can’t be sure that all of it does.

Red blood cells take oxygen from the lungs to our tissues. They are also picking up CO2 and H2O from the tissues. An enzyme in the red blood cells - carbonic anhydrase - helps convert the CO2 and H2O into bicarbonate and hydrogen ions, HCO3 and H, and thus they travel to the lungs. 70+% of carbon dioxide goes this route. In the lungs that same enzyme aids in the conversion back into CO2 and H2O, where they are exhaled to the atmosphere. Thus far we’re exhaling H20.

10%-23% of CO2 binds directly to hemoglobin in our red blood cells. This molecular change makes carbaminohaemoglobin - which has a blue color that contributes to our veins looking blue. This also changes back to CO2 and gets exhaled in the lungs.

5%-8% of CO2 dissolves into blood plasma.

Where I’m not sure is if some water goes other routes than just entering the red blood cells and going into bicarbonate and hydrogen ions. Blood plasma is 90+% water to start with, so a few more water molecules could join right in without much trouble.

So, in the end I just don’t know if we exhale all the water, and - if we don’t - if that would offset the water consumption of breaking apart triglycerides.

(Omar) #205

when we blow into cold surface some water condensate on the cold surface. But I do not know if that water is a byproduct of some bioreaction or it is the water vapor we inhaled with air.

humid air can contain lots of water.

(Omar) #206

I done lots of 15 hours dry fasting for 30 days when I was young in extremely hot climate exposed to direct sun light for considrable portion of the day.It is extremely difficult.At that time people sleep most of the night and make their living in the day time not like now where night and day are reversed.

I cant say it was not healthy but difficult, and feel water fasting is a slow motion of dry fasting. But I would not recommend it for longer than 24 hours without sufficient backing by science.

My brother used to play full football match while dry fasting and he is healthier than me but that is not a scientific research

(DougH) #207

I like Delauer, and I have seen that video but my takeaway was that it was way too high on the bro science.

(Bunny) #208

I think the whole dry fasting thing came from bodybuilder bro science …lol

I never hear any medical doctor for example like J. Fung even mention it?

Can find no legitimate scientific papers on it either?

Or ancient austere or aesthetic science on it?

(Doug) #209

I think people get hooked on some oft-repeated claims like, “One day of dry fasting equals three days of water fasting…”

:roll_eyes: :smile:

(bulkbiker) #210

No idea if we rate this guy or not but…


(Diane) #211

Very interesting. At least he makes specific claims and cites research to support it (purportedly). It’s gonna take some time (which I probably don’t have this week) to look up the studies he’s referencing. I’m adding this to my list. Thanks for sharing!

Just FYI, I was raised in an LDS household (Mormon). He cites the religious practice of “dry fasting” for approximately 24 hrs once a month as a fact. Although this is how my family practiced fasting, I don’t believe this is required, I know families which supported the practice of allowing water during the monthly fast.

Edit: I just skimmed this article quickly.

(Doug) #212

For every 100 grams of fat, your body can make 107-110 grams of water, compared to 60g from carbs and just 42g of water from protein.

In other words, fat is the most efficient source of internal water.

This stuff is nonsense, however, as far as human fasting, from everything I’ve ever found. Yeah, theoretically you can take the hydrogen atoms and make water, since oxygen is free and unlimited for us, but we still consume water when we split triglycerides, and we exhale most or all the water that’s a by-product of cellular respiration/metabolism.

metabolic water is of extreme importance and your body will strive to make it from fat at a higher rate than it would on a water fast.

I wish there was some truth to this, but that statement aligns with no proven science, again, that I’ve seen. There’s already a limit to how much fat we can access, i.e. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15615615

(DougH) #213

:rofl: 110 grams of mass from 100 grams of mass. Full stop on those claims.

(Doug) #214

:slightly_smiling_face: (Nice name there, Doug.) Well - the mass of hydrogen is 1, Oxygen is 16, so the big O is 89% of the weight of water, which we breathe in. Looking at stoichiometry (:smile: that word) I’d say it’s possible, but mammals don’t do that stuff…

Yet, I’d say that the doc has definitely been hitting the Crack pipe or else just copying the same BS from the lamest of blogs, videos, articles, etc.