Does cream in my coffee confound a fast?


(Meara McLaughlin) #1

My appetite is low so I plan to fast, but I am coffee addicted and take it with cream. Does this blow the impact of fasting?


(Allie) #2

Depends on how much you have and what your reason for fasting is.


(Chris - Mince meat, not words.) #3

If you NEED something to get through the fast, it’s okay. But if you really want to make sure to reap all the benefits, try your best to avoid or drink black. Some would say black coffee breaks a fast even, but really everyone’s opinion on the matter differs.

If the goal is solely fat loss, I’d say cream is fine.


(Meara McLaughlin) #4

But not bullet proof coffee, i assume. Just enough cream to keep me going, right?


(Chris - Mince meat, not words.) #5

Yeah that’s my take on it. Bulletproof can be fairly calorie dense.


(Meara McLaughlin) #6

thanks for the quick response. Onward to fasting!


How can I tell ? Fasting
#7

I have done a number of fasts with coffee with HWC. Yesterday I started an accidental fast because I could not have lunch. Had half and half in my coffee because I was out and desperate. I was hungrier than I expected to be at 5 but managed to get through it

I did lose weight in my prior fasts with having two cups of coffee with cream. There are some who claim that fat or protein will halt autophagy, which does not really happen until at least 24 or 36 hours anyway and you should have nothing but distilled water but I could not survive the caffeine withdrawal


(Jason Donohoe) #8

I don’t know if the science is there to answer the question. According to Rhonda Patrick even black coffee will break your fast, never mind cream. Jason Fung has it posted on one of his fasting websites that coffee or tea with some milk or creamvis OK. Who to believe?

I am in the same boat. I really enjoy coffee with a little bit of cream but don’t like it black. I routinely eat on a 16-8 schedule from noon to 8 but have a coffee with cream first thing in the morning. I also do a 40 hour fast each week and have about 4 coffees in that window.

I know I am in ketosis during both the long and short fasts (confirmed with ketone meter) but maybe i am missing out on autophagy or some of the hormne shifts i could be getting.

I recently tried giving up coffee with cream outside my eating window and decided it wasn’t worth it.


(Sacha Beauregard) #9

I’m inclined to believe anything that Dr Rhonda says =P
But, it’s my opinion, that the logic is sound: ingesting anything that your body has to think about, beyond water, would distract it from the stuff you want it to do. So perhaps it wouldn’t de-rail autophagy or the fast, per-se, but it might slow it down?


(#inforthelonghaul, KCKO, KCFO) #10

Yes, Dr. Fung suggests teaspoon of cream or coconut oil. The idea is to keep going for an extended time. I personally started with tablespoon of coconut oil. My tummy didn’t like that so I use about 1/2 teaspoon of cream frothed and I can easily go til dinner time or onwards to 36/48 hrs. if I do the same each morning. I just need me coffee 1st thing. I know an addiction, but I have so few vices left and coffee in limited amounts is good for you.

Some fasting gurus say under 50 cals. others go up to 500 cals (BPC would fall into that range). I think the fewer cals the better and make them fat ones. You could slow down some effects of fasting but with the extended fasting that should not matter all that much.

Fasting was the missing part in my weight loss journey, I am under my original goal and stay that way with some IFing and 36 hrs. fasts occasionally. I enjoy doing the Zornfast with others each month.

All the best in your fasting efforts.


(Mark Rhodes) #11

There is much on this topic here and here

Especially look for @LizinLowell who overcame her HWC codependence! Happy Fasting!


(Doodler for @KetoKailey) #12

@LizinLowell inspired me to breakup with HWC :laughing:. Day 2 on cashew milk though.


#13

What is the advantage of Cashew Milk unless you want to give up dairy? Also, how clean is your cashew milk and is there fat in it?


(Dameon Welch-Abernathy) #14

As others have said, it depends on your reasons for fasting.

For me, I found it easier to start fasting by having heavy cream in my coffee. Over time, I discovered that my tastes changed to the point where black coffee and even espresso was acceptable. Now, I generally only have heavy cream during my eating period with tea.


#15

Jason Fung MD, Mary Dan Eades MD, Stephen Phinney MD, Michael Eades MD, Megan Ramos and others educate on how it’s protein and carbs not fat calories that takes one out of the fasted state. The only thing that matters is carbs up to a point. (This may however not apply to sedentary non-fasters who take a heavy fat morning coffee along with a huge breakfast, followed by two other big meals - at some point, caloric excess can become a prob without physical activity).

That being the case, a coffee with 2-4 tblsp of fat (some of it HWC) to feed the brain all day is not only great for brainz, it in turn supports the metabolism and extends happy fasting.

In my own experience, inch-dropping and metabolic power have been unhindered by abundant fat in my coffee while doing IF 4:3 or 5:2. In fact, being an under 55 year old female I use a little half n half to get 1-2 carbs to help my body not lurch into the female mammalian starvation response of fat storage - which not only works according to my results, but also is tasty.

Plus, black coffee on its own is very hard on the stomach lining as well as tooth enamel, being quite acidic. Alkalinizing it with dairy (or salt, as some do) makes it all better tho apparently.


#16

Jason Fung MD, Mary Dan Eades MD, Stephen Phinney MD, Michael Eades MD, Megan Ramos and others educate on how it’s carbs and protein NOT fat calories that stop a fast.

The only thing that matters is carbs up to a point. (This may however not apply to sedentary non-fasters who take a heavy fat morning coffee along with a huge breakfast, followed by two other big meals - at some point, caloric excess can become a prob without physical activity).

That being the case, a coffee with 2-4 tblsp of fat (some of it HWC) to feed the brain all day is not only great for brainz, it in turn supports the metabolism and extends happy fasting.

In my own experience, inch-dropping and metabolic power have been unhindered by abundant fat in my coffee while doing IF 4:3 or 5:2. In fact, being an under 55 year old female I use a little half n half to get 1-2 carbs to help my body not lurch into the female mammalian starvation response of fat storage - which not only works according to my results, but also is tasty. I learned about that somewhere on Leanne Vogel’s website Healthful Pursuit.


(Annika) #17

I have coffee with brain octane (MCT oil) and butter. Is that ok while fasting. No carbs what so ever.


(Chris - Mince meat, not words.) #18

They also all refer to cream and coffee as fasting crutches and encourage their patients to stop using them. Protein and carbs break autophagy, calories in general break a fast. If fat loss is the only goal, 50 calories or less is acceptable.


(Richard Hanson) #19

Hi Annika1,

When I fast, I consume no exogenous calories except the tiny bit that is in a cup of black coffee. When I am not fasting, I will have keto coffee with fat. Is a bit of MCT oil OK?

If the MCT oil helps you extend your fast, and if the alternative is breaking your fast, then I would think that this is an acceptable personal choice. You should still experience most, if not all, of the benefits of fasting. This is, however, just as speculative as the diet-heart hypothesis, and we should all be aware of how assuming something as true without solid experimental verification can be extraordinarily harmful if incorporated into dietary recommendations.

Dr. Michael Mosley created the 5:2 diet. Two days each weak, non-contiguous, a person eats about 25% of their normal calories. One of the goals was to down regulate IGF1, and, at least for Dr. Mosley and others, this eating pattern appears to achieve that goal. This would lead to a hypothesis that at least some of the benefits of fasting can be achieved without a zero caloric fast. I hope that this will eventually be tested in a clinical trial.

In the real world, we must still make decisions, even when there are no good data to support those choices.

My recommendation is not to make recommendations about exactly what to eat. Each of us is a bit different, some of us are much different, and embedded in the arrogance of making general recommendations to other people is the false assumption that everyone is the same.

I would define a “healthy” diet as the diet consumed by a healthy people. By this definition, the current United States government recommended diet is far from healthy, but historically there have been many peoples, populations, that have been extraordinarily healthy eating a wide range of diets. When there is no definitive causative science I ask myself “What would an Inuit do?” … or “What would a Maasai do?”. The dietary analogue of the moral question “What would Jesus do?”. I would model my behaviors after those healthy peoples with a long history of eating a healthy diet.

This is an extraordinarily long winded response, i beg your forbearance, to what appears to be quite a simple question, but I hope to empower you to answer such questions for yourself. Each of us is a unique, precious individual.

Warmest Regards,
Richard


#20

There’s more to it than sticking a “crutch” label on it - and I think such a general analogy with a limited definition is short-sighted. (In terms of marginalized or underestimated folks that have actual physical disabilites and use actual crutches, a crutch can be asymmetrical leverage and even an effective weapon).

Running on fat, feeding the brain with fat is the functional/integrative leading edge right now. And Fung has clearly articulated in a recent video interview that “FAT IS FINE.” Dietary practices with IF and around 90% fat are the realm of Butter Bob, and his handy blog of his remarkable journey.

As to if the autophagy of mice is to be extrapolated onto humans - that’s controversial. There is a lot of argument that human physiology has many other nuances - for example, human thoughts influence neurochemistry (thus, the ‘physiology of gratitude’ is a scientific thing).

Pre-climacteric female fasting has nuances that are unaddressed by current LCHF/keto science (due to the centering of male bodies in general physiology studies and western medicine - and extrapolating those results onto females - which has been the sad & absured history of modern western medicine up until very recent years) would point to regularly massive gaps and silencing of female biological realities.

My own sustainable recomposition process - math on the inches lost - and that of some other keto women (all of us in the category of having switched to LCHF/keto before metabolic derangements), points to something else.

And if you ask around to keto scientists, the answer you will find is that it’s not been studied yet, so “we don’t know” - which is the scientific method. In a science paradigm that has been male-centered for the most part I’m looking forward to this changing.

In the keto documentary Run On Fat which follows triathletes Sami Inkenen and his partner Meredith Loring on their record-breaking row from California to Hawaii - and how when Sami bonked for two days in the boat sleeping area, petite Meredith (half the size of Sami) continued rowing on schedule by herself for two days and not only that, consistently enough so that they didn’t lose time and won the world record anyway. In addition, Meredith’s caloric intake was half of Sami’s but structured with the same high fat ratio. When we compare the muscle mass ratio of the two, it’s another obvious example of the fact that there are female biological factors and nuances that challenge pre-conceived notions of male-centered science. And we’re not even talking about the fact of spontaneous freestanding birth physiology in otherwise healthy women, which is it’s own amazing area of mammalian reality which is vastly different than the medical model’s view of birth as a mechanical/materialist event.