Consistently gaining weight after two years on keto

keto
newbies
extendedfast
(Gabor Vattay) #1

Hi, I started keto in August 2016. I’ve lost 33 lbs in 6 months without effort. Then I plateaued for a year. Then I did intermittent fasting. Two day fast one day feed for four months. I struggled and lost 11 lbs more. Then I got back to normal keto. I gained 15 lbs in just two weeks. Then it slowed down a bit, but
finally, I gained back 22 lbs in total. All this with the same 20g carbs diet. Since I got used to keto at about 6 months and all the horrible side effects gone away (legcraps, kidney stones, brain outages) I feel great but I gain weight. I gain fat and my muscle mass is shrinking steadily from the beginning. Any idea?

(Carl Keller) #2

Certainly you must have been fat adapted after 6 months and I wonder if you ever tried reducing the amount of fat you were eating? When we start keto it’s encouraged to eat plenty of fat but eventually, as our body gets better at using fat, we can dial down the amount of fat we eat so our body can use more of our body fat for fuel.

Our bodies are remarkable at adapting. Repetitive cycles can lead to adjustments to metabolism so that body fat is much harder to lose. It’s often recommended to mix things up and even include some feasting days to fully reset hunger hormones and convice our bodies that starvation is not something to worry about.

I wonder how you felt during the EF/one day feed period? Were you cold, constantly hungry, low energy? If so, then it’s possible your metabolism slowed down which could explain why you gained back 22 pounds after resuming “normal” keto.

Slowing metabolism creates problems that can last a while. Basically you slow your body’s energy expenditures and it learns how to run on a reduced amount of calories while sacrificing small things that help us feel normal like energy and warmth.

Dr. Fung likes to use the analogy of a coal burning plant. Say the plant needs 2000 tons of coal to properly power a city. If suddenly only 1500 tons are available on a daily basis, the plant adjusts by letting a few lights go out so the vital parts of the city stay alive. Our body is much the same.

The problem is when we go back to eating our normal amount of calories. Our bodies got used to a lower amount so now we can actually gain weight because the amount of calories above that new metabolic threshhold are now being stored as fat.

Example: before we used to eat 2000 calories per day to maintain weight. We ate 1500 for 4 months and reduced our metabolism and our body adjusted to maintain at that number. So we resume the 2000 per day and now anything over 1500 starts getting stored as fat.

(Gabor Vattay) #3

I agree with your assessment! But, Fung also claims that water fasting does not lead to reduced
metabolism. He is obviously wrong. So, it seems that keto is not an answer for weight loss.
If I restrict what I eat or if I EF (today I’m on day 6 of my fast) both lead to reduced metabolism
and I just gain weight in the process. What is the way out?

(Mary) #4

Hey :slight_smile:
After how much time do we dial down the fat we eat. Months, a year, its different for everyone i imagine but when do we know? And how much do we dial it down to about?

(Carl Keller) #5

The answer is fat adaptation. After being keto long enough, our body can become proficient in using body fat for fuel, in the absence of dietary fat. In this scenario caloric defict is not an issue because as long as we have fat, we have access to energy.

Fung talks about this in his YT video called the Two Compartment Problem. In regards to EF he shows (with graphs derived from a study) that someone in a fat adapted state of ketosis actually had increased their metabolism and adrenaline levels so starvation mode was never an issue.

But why does adrenaline and metabolism increase when there’s no energy coming in? I believe it’s our body saying “Hey, we need food here! Here’s extra motivation to go hunt us something to eat!”.

Fung says it could take upwards of a year for someone with a lowered metabolism to get things back where they should be. I would say that you should try eat an even lower carb diet that leans more toward carnivore (maybe 10 carbs) to try bring things back up to speed. I think the key is to keep your insulin as inactive as possible (by eating low glycemic foods) so at the very least, you will stop gaining weight. More fat to keep from being hungry even though fat may have more calories per gram, those calories won’t affect you like carb calories will.

I’m not an expert. This is my best guess and hope someone else can offer better advice.

(Carl Keller) #6

It could be a month, two months or even longer for some. It depends on how cooperative our hormones are. They are often screwed up by carb based diets and it takes time to sort out the damage. You will know when you can say yes to these questions:

Do I have consistent all day energy?
Can I go long periods of time without being overly hungry?
Are my cravings gone?
Do I sleep well/am i stressed?

As for how much to decrease fat? I can’t put a number on it for you, but your satiation should help determine it. If you follow your hunger and eat accordingly, you might notice you are eating fewer and fewer calories but if the scale is not moving, you can try cutting out the extra fats. I reduced butter, oils, dairy, cheese, nuts and tried to not make fat a part of my every bite of food. From looking back at my numbers, I went from 160 grams of fat per day to between 100-120 grams. What’s crucial for this to work is that lowering your fat amount doesn’t lead to an increase in hunger.

(Mary) #7

Got it! Thank you

(Running from stupidity) #8

I’ll let him know.

(Gabor Vattay) #9

Two years ago I watched Fung’s video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tIuj-oMN-Fk with admiration. It was so true!

Now, two years later, it seems that you can be safely obese without insulin :slight_smile: I agree that keto and fasting is essential to treat T2D and to get back mitochondrial health. The flexibility to burn fat.

But, metabolism is a much more complex system and can learn to store fat at any circumstances.
I’m pretty sure, that after about 1.5 years on keto evrybody starts gaining weight again and everyone keeps this secret. The big secret is that evolution did not build in any internal break. The lack of available food is the only limit to weight gain.

(Running from stupidity) #10

You’ve got no shortage of whacko theories, have you?

#11

I’ve been keto for 5 years and had to work extremely hard in order to gain a measly 1.5kg.

(Gabor Vattay) #12

Very good news indeed! What can be the difference between you and me?

(PSackmann) #13

You don’t say in the original post, have you been to your doctor to have a thorough check-up? Gaining 15 pounds in a two week period without a change in diet is a signal that something may be wrong.

(Omar) #14

is it possible that such weight gain is muscle mass? or at least partially

How about the health of your liver?

Are you able to notice where the additional pounds went? is it in the tummy or hips or neither ?

#15

Might take a look at this. It was just posted this morning.

(Gabor Vattay) #16

I’m pretty sure it is not muscle mass. I have a very good (Whitings/NOKIA) scale and I can see how my fat % goes up. I started my keto at 210 lbs (BMI=31) I had 30-32% fat. Once I lost 44 lbs and reached BMI=25 then I was at 24-25% fat. Now I’m back at 187 lbs (BMI=28) and fat is again at 30+ %.
It is all belly fat. It took only two weeks to get from 25% fat back to 30% fat when I stopped intermittent fasting and did just normal keto.

My liver lab work is always excellent. My glucose, insulin, triglycerides … are all great!

#17

That seems unlikely.

These scales are heavily influenced by hydration levels.

(Omar) #18

sorry for asking too many questions.

since it is clear that you are gaining belly fat.

How about your digestive track?

any indigestion bloating or IBS issues?

(Gabor Vattay) #19

I’m a physicist. We call it “working hypothesis” :slight_smile:

(Gabor Vattay) #20

You are right. The intraday fat % fluctuates like hell depending on hydration level. But, the running average curve is more or less correct.