Collagen benefits accidentally realized


Well I guess it’s time for me to create my own accountability thread where I can seek out the help and inspiration I need. I’ve toyed with that idea but shyness (unbelievable for someone like me but there it is) has kept me from it. Anyway I have reasons to be apprehensive about it.

But I’ll keep my comments here to collagen supplements alone.

However, what Mark has posted here so far in this thread has reduced me to tears this morning. The hope within them I desperately needed. Sometimes a tangent is worth every word.

(Denise) #63

Sounds good and how great to have each other to encourage!! Never give up :wink:

I was so glad to know walking was so helpful as it is one thing I truly enjoy!! Spring is springing around here, and we so look forward to our Summers as they are mostly mild and 80 ish at the most, Denise :wink:

(Mark Rhodes) #64

That is very kind of you to say. Since coming into Keto and meeting Carl and Richard I learned a great many things about health and did not pay for it. It was freely given. They had no pay walls, no UP USER fee. They did something which I also do in my alteranate life ( I am in a Twelve Step Program for over 34 years) , that is to carry the message to the person (alcoholic). That’s it. I have my health because I did these simple things and the only way I can ever repay my debt of gratitude is to give of my time.

Today I am a Patreon of the Forums because it takes $ to operate the space. The admins are all volunteers. but web hosting etc, that costs bling. I am glad to do it as well as glad to share what little I have.

I have written about this since May of 2018 and it even made the podcast as MAIL!! Continuing to carry the keto message

Peter Ballerstedt’s recent presentation was a continuation of this, that carbohydrate reduction therapy leads to health and ways the keto community can actively do this using grass roots methods ( forgive the pun about the Sodfather)

KCKO is the cliche that works

(Mark Rhodes) #65

Yesterday the wife says “You don’t even know what day it is” and I said “Yes I do, it’s leg day” and went to the gym. After wards me and my clown Ukee went for a walk


(Denise) #66

You bet! I am excited too, for you and myself. I needed some inspiration and I’ve learned most everything I know so far, just by coming here :slight_smile: I take a lot of other supplements I’ll go into later, but I also believe they are helping me as well.

Right now I’m wrestling with taking more of the collagen than I have been. I think taking at least the recommend scoops will be a start :wink: Denise PS my other bone building thing is Boron. I think I have an article or video on that I’ll post below :wink:

Not sure this includes Boron, but it may be another good one for now:

(Denise) #67

What a beautiful dog, I’d so love to have another, but it’s not time for that yet :wink: I love the “It’s leg day” :sweat_smile:

(Denise) #68

I meant to ask you @Just_Juju, do you have access to your med records online? I do through what is called MyChart out here in California. I can get anything off there, print it out or sometimes I go down to the Stationary Store and print a bunch out, Denise PS if you don’t know then your doctor should know if you can get hooked up to it. I see results of tests sooner than my doc!!


Yes I have MyChart and can see as far back as 2012? Maybe earlier. I see results instantly.

(Bob M) #70

I agree with everything Robin said. I have an “age spot” on my hand that is very hard to see, and was there and getting darker for years until I started collagen. The only thing not cured – but better is a toe nail where I’ve had fungus there for decades probably. Looks much better but is still a bit thick.

(Mark Rhodes) #71

You should save every lab test and imaging as a pdf and store it on your preferred cloud server. Why? Well when I was having my PE in 2021, Seal Team 6 ( hematologist, pulmonologist, hospitalist, 2 cardiologists and PCP) were all debating how this could have happened. “Gentlemen, I am FV and FV III” "What? we have no record of that,…so from my phone I pulled up those PDFs from 2006 and my first DVT from 1998. “Oh, that explains it” well, not really, it was an induced PE via my second Moderna shot but in early 2021 you couldn’t say that out loud. Of course my genetics and the clotting factor in the vaccine created the problem NOT the vaccine alone

(Denise) #72

man, what an amazing come-back story you have Mark :frowning: I had the moderna as well, another story for another time.

It’s not surprise folks want to interview you. I still haven’t listened to your interview but I will at some point. Got my workout done with the bands, and planning a walk during the time I usually eat lunch which I’m trying to get some intermittent fasting in my days as well :slight_smile:

(Edith) #73

Unfortunately, I don’t really have any knowledge where this is concerned. I had one bone density test some time ago and my bone density was fine at the time.

I do have some anecdotes about joint health that may help?

I can’t consume dairy because it makes my joints hurt and gives me a rash, so because we’ve been so brainwashed into thinking we need dairy to get our calcium, I started taking calcium supplements when I quit all dairy products. I took them for years.

During that time I started having arthritis trouble, particularly lower back and feet. I had to hobble around in the mornings when first waking up because my feet were so stiff. I also developed something called Hallux Rigidus which is arthritis at the base of my big toe. I figured it was just part of aging especially since it runs in the family.

About, gosh maybe three years or so ago, I tried a carnivore diet for a while. During that time I went through a ton of oxalate dumping. I have to say, getting a lot of oxalate out of me helped with some of my joint problems. The next thing that helped was stopping the calcium supplements. It may have been @Shortstuff who mentioned calcium supplements made her feel worse (maybe back troubles, I don’t remember the details any more.) So, I stopped taking the Ca supplements and added in vitamin K. My joints started to feel even better. These days, my feet no longer hurt, I rarely have lower back pain. If I had to guess, the Ca supplement was just causing the Ca to settle in my joints instead of getting absorbed into my bones.

Last summer I was having a lot of neck trouble. Stopping long distance running helped but wasn’t the complete solution. I started supplementing MSM and collagen powder about three months ago. The neck trouble is almost completely gone. In fact, I have to remind myself sometimes that I can turn my head from side to side instead of turning with my shoulders. I’m more consistent with the MSM, so I really do feel it has had a benefit. Unfortunately, I think it is more for inflammation than bone health, but I did find one paper that suggests MSM could be helpful in fighting osteoporosis.

I still have problems with my big toe, but the toe is one I injured many years ago. Sigh… I think injuries will always come back to haunt us at some point in our lives.

I’m 58. I eat pushing 120g of protein a day, do resistance training, try to walk or run most days, take my vitamin K and D, take collagen and MSM. It’s probably time for another bone density scan to see if any of this is working. :grinning:

(Denise) #74

I understand Edie, I just wanted to get any help possible for @Just_Juju as well as myself on my scannned DEXA on my other thread on “Going Back to Gym” :wink: I’ve flagged Mark again over there, he’s probably getting sick of me, but I want opinions on my tests from a year ago. I am do for another bone scan this month, surprise, another years has flown by :face_with_raised_eyebrow:

I am lucky to still be with my original MD since my new NP left. We can’t keep then here in this town/county :frowning: but my MD is crippled with MS, and very hard to video chat with, plus, he is not trained on low-carb/keto. So it’s a bit of a struggle to understand his answers when I ask questions. So I’m glad to hear others personal experience with health issues. Thanks again, Denise


So interesting. I had toe surgery last fall for Hallux Rigidus, it helped. It was interfering with my ability to work out at all. But lately my back pain from a couple slipped disks is coming back and I wasn’t sure why since I’m working out 3-4x/week. I wonder if the calcium supplements they have me on is doing this?

I had surgery in Dec ‘21 to remove three parathyroid tumors. As is common they take the easy road by saying the tumors are what caused my osteo, but I believe the long term use of omeprazole (PPI) caused the tumors so is mostly to blame. I only have one parathyroid left but am told they are redundant and one should be able to manage my calcium just fine. Still they placed me on Citrical since I only have one left and I’ve been on it ever since. After reading what I’m reading here about the supplement form of calcium I’m going to try to wean myself off of it and see what my next blood test looks like.

I take everything else you do, except MSM. Thanks for the link - I’ll start some reading about it. :heart:


How can someone get both MSM and BMP-2 supplementation. It appears from the article both are needed.

EDIT: maybe it’s not wise to supplement the BMP2??

(Bob M) #77

I’ve often wondered about calcium supplements. I wonder if these are just giving people atherosclerosis instead of stronger bones? (Why would calcium go into the bones instead of going into plaque?)

I never take calcium, yet my bones are fine. I do, however, body weight training 3x/week and also go jogging 2x/week. Both help with stronger bones.

(Denise) #78

I don’t feel comfy taking Calcium either, I get some in my diet, and that I figure, is enough :slight_smile:

(Edith) #79

So far, my toe makes it challenging to do lunges as deep as I would like, but otherwise it hasn’t caused any other problems. If that’s as bad as it gets, I won’t complain. :smile:

(Allie) #80

Yes, calcium supplements cause migraines for me.

(Allie) #81

Apparently if vitamin K is too low the calcium doesn’t go into the bones, but instead ends up in the blood stream.

I had this long reply from a researcher once…

Hey Allie,

This is Shawn’s nutritional assistant, Craig.

Thanks so much for your message! I read over it and dug around and did a little research and found this study that may be related to what you’re suggesting.

To summarize it so you don’t have to read the entire thing like I did lol, essentially the researchers tested almost 40,000 subjects and found a positive correlation with increased serum calcium over a period of years. And this this initial issue was related to genetics and the environmental factors that can trigger it.

So essentially, some people may be more prone to migraines if they consume too much calcium. The researchers concluded that more work needed to be done to exactly know what metabolic pathway led to the migraines.

My suggestion as a nutritionist would be to really focus on your vitamin D, Vitamin K2, and calcium ratio. These minerals and vitamins (as well as others) work very synergistically. Increasing your vitamin D and K2 levels will actually help your body to move the calcium you do have to the right places (aka, your bones and teeth). If you are deficient in vitamin D and K2, calcium and actually be stored in your arteries where we definitely don’t want.

And if you have been habitually consuming more calcium for many years with insufficient vitamin D and K2, it could be a potential epigenetic trigger as to why you consume migraines when you consume calcium.

So I would really up your Vit D and K2 intake. If you live in an environment where you can get optimal sunlight and UV rays (anything above a UV index of 4) during the afternoon would be great. And eating foods that are high in Vitamin K2 (not K1)…things like grass fed butter, meats, or fermented foods contain a less bioavailable form of K2. Best bet would be to go with grass fed butter if you are able to.

If you want, consuming a very high quality vitamin D/k2 supplement would be great as well. Making sure the ratio of the two vitamins is key though. I prefer Dr. Mercola’s brand or Thorne Research D/K2.

I hope this helps! I will definitely relay the info to shawn and see what we can do about reaching more people with this info. Let me know if this resonates with you and if you opt to go with a vitamin D/K2 supplement. There are a couple good books I could recommend on this topic as well if you would like.

talk with you soon, allie :slightly_smiling_face: