Carnivore info please

(Scott) #63

One other question . When I started keto a month ago I was trying to watch all my macros . I know carbs is t a problem
On Carnivore. What about calories fat and specifically proteins .

(Ethan) #64

You’ll hear a lot about different ways to try and do the protein:fat ratio. For me, the best advice is to figure it out with experimenting. I think getting 70%+ calories from fat isn’t really necessary here, but it could be for some people. Many are thriving on much more protein. I wouldn’t try to eat lean though! Fatty meat and see how you feel. Things like chicken are much leaner and probably better for when you have a grip on what is best for you. I have heard everything from 50% calories from fat to 90%. I think I try for about 70% and try to err on the higher side because of insulin resistance.

(Elizabeth ) #65

We recommend starting at about 70%, if all you’re eating is meat you should probably stay above 65% on a permanent basis, temporarily dropping lower is possibly okay for specific health or body build ing reasons. But a range of 65 to 90% is pretty normal

(Bacon is a many-splendoured thing) #66

Bear in mind that when percentages are given where food is concerned, they are generally percentages of total calories. Thus 70% fat and 30% protein is almost equal amounts of protein and fat by weight, given that protein contains around 4 calories a gram and fats average around 9. (Not actually very exact, but there we are.) Seventy percent of total food weight as fat would be a very different situation.

I hope no one will take this as any kind of criticism, but I would like to suggest that people be explicit about whether they are talking about percentages of total calories or percentages of total weight. I think we would all find it very helpful to have the added clarity. I know I would. :grin:

(Ethan) #67

That is a very important distinction. By gram, most recommendations I have heard are between 3:1 (usually for short-term weight loss or biohacking) and 1:1 for protein:fat. The 3:1 ratio is actually only 43% of Calories by fat. The 1:1 ratio is just under 70% Calories by fat.

(Elizabeth ) #68

1 to 1 fat/protein in GRAMS would make about 68-90% protein in most cases…

(Alex) #69

I was worried too. I found these two videos most helpful in lowering my concerns while I tried zc out :slight_smile:

Dr Georgia Ede - The Risks and Benefits of Eating Plants

L. Amber Ohearn - Rethinking RDAs (Recommended Daily Allowances)

(Elizabeth ) #70

What can I eat?
Optimal foods include:

Meat! Beef, veal, pork, chicken, duck, turkey, fish, shellfish, lamb, etc. Organ meat if you enjoy it, liver, kidneys, and such like. Bacon, of course!
Eggs; as many as you like. Yolks are delicious and good for you.

Animal fats for cooking: beef fat (tallow), lard, (non-hydrogenated), bacon grease, duck fat, butter, ghee.
Salt is fine. Some people limit salt; others have no problem with it. Sea salt is optimal if you want to add salt.
Water.
Less than Optimal foods include:

Processed meats are allowed, but check labels and avoid sugars, fillers like breadcrumbs, and soy products. We love our bacon around here! Sausage, bacon, ham, pepperoni, and so on, are fine.
Dairy, full fat, including cheese and heavy cream. Children, who don’t have weight to lose or other health issues, can also have whole milk and plain, full fat yogurt. (If you can get them raw milk, even better!)
*We frequently remind people that are new to this way of eating that including dairy may inhibit weight loss, and may increase your cravings, but if it helps stay on the zero carb path, then by all means include it in your diet.

Spices, herbs, garlic, etc., even if the label says zero carbs. These can interfere with your true hunger signals. It is possible to eat a lot more meat if it is highly flavored, and you might not be truly hungry. We generally consider these “plant foods” as acceptable for light seasoning, especially as you make the transition to zero carb. Dried onion and garlic are better choices than fresh.
Mustard or hot pepper sauce are acceptable.
Coffee is tricky and is considered less than optimal! Caffeine will inhibit your hunger signals and can mess with your insulin response.
*Do not use coffee in place of a meal; this includes bullet proof coffee. Eat some meat first, and then have coffee afterwards, if you must. Drink it black, or heavy cream is fine, if you have decided to include dairy.

Many, many people use coffee as an appetite suppressant and are not even aware of this. If you drink coffee in the morning and are not hungry for hours, the coffee needs to go. Eat!

Tea seems to have a lesser effect than coffee, but drink it black and be aware of the effects on hunger.
Alcohol will lower your inhibitions and you might easily eat foods that you wouldn’t otherwise consider.
Alcohol interferes with weight loss and is not recommended for anyone trying to lose weight.
You will notice that it takes a lesser amount of alcohol to give you a “buzz” the longer you are on zero carbs. Choose dry wines or the clear hard stuff, like vodka and soda water, if you must.

Mayonnaise made with vegetable oil. Many people object to the soybean oil that is used in commercial mayonnaise. Others still include mayo now and then for tuna salad or deviled eggs or such like. If these foods help you stick to zero carb, you may include mayo.
Some people make their own mayonnaise and there are many recipes around here. You can experiment if you like that sort of thing. We generally focus on animal fats and that is part of the objection to mayonnaise. It is included here as less than optimal, but acceptable. Your mileage may vary.

Not included and not recommended:

NO sugar, artificial sweeteners, natural sweeteners, honey; NOTHING that tastes sweet. Stevia, sucralose, diet sodas, saccharine, 0-calorie flavored drinks, energy drink;, even if the label says “zero carbs” we highly recommend that you do not include any of these products.
Any taste of something sweet will keep your cravings alive and can also interfere with your insulin response. Artificial sweeteners appear to be as addictive, if not more so, than regular sugar! This may be one of the most difficult things to give up but you will see so many benefits and improvements if you remove these products from your diet.
No fruits, vegetables, grains, nuts, seeds, or vegetable oils, including olive oil and coconut oil.
No protein shakes or protein bars, no matter the ingredients. We eat meat – real food. No need for highly processed powders as a meal replacement

(Alex) #71

The ketoAF subreddit has a decent blogpost on the topic of fat:protein ratios and what that looks like, with pictures of different ratios for beef cuts.

(Todd Allen) #72

Anyone who thinks they are achieving dietary purity eating only plants or only animals is deluded!

Food spoils due to unwanted life forms multiplying to vast numbers on and within the food. Bacteria make food slimey and fungi make food moldy and they are ubiquitous. All of our food marinates in a sea of microscopic plants and animals too. And not just single cell life. A bag of flour kept too long in a cabinet will eventually become riddled with tiny larva hatching from eggs in the flour. Examine your clear glass of pure fresh refreshing water closely and you’ll find it is full microscopic of plants and animals too. Sterilization doesn’t remove this life from our food and water but rather kills it preventing it from growing to nauseating amounts. The dead life is still there. You can’t escape it. There is no purity. If you could achieve purity it would be unnatural and probably unhealthy.

(Bob M) #73

Egad…this is totally wrong. I’ve had coffee literally for decades and it has NOTHING to do with my hunger. NOTHING. EVER.

It’s these kinds of blanket statements that make me shake my head at carnivores.

That, and all the people who fail at it, yet OBVIOUSLY did something “wrong”. Because everyone KNOWS carnivore works for everyone. If it didn’t work for you, you didn’t try it for the minimum of 6 months (or is it a year or two years?) or you did it wrong. It’s never the fact that some people can handle some plants, and maybe don’t need to eat that way? It can’t be. They are WRONG and the carnivores are correct.

(Elizabeth ) #74

ummm isn’t OP asking for carnivore advice- ??

(Alex) #75

This isn’t a blanket statement and coffee does strongly affect my hunger, so fine, it has nothing to do with your hunger but that doesn’t change the fact that for many people it does.

This is a thread where someone has asked for advice on what carnivores eat, so we are talking about what we eat. Nobody’s forcing anyone to only eat meat, just explaining what we do, which you’ll notice varies significantly.

We’ve not said it works for everyone, just what carnivore is, and what we consider carnivore-ish. If you don’t want to do carnivore, none of this matters to you.

I don’t feel like eating this way makes me ‘pure’ or more correct. Plenty of people thrive on different diets, and I thrived on very relaxed paleo for years before trauma and autoimmune disease worsened my health. Now I eat just meat because I have found that’s what works for me.

6 months is recommended because it’s a big lifestyle change and the body takes time to heal. If it’s making someone much worse after a couple of weeks at which point the gut microbiome should have adapted, then I don’t think anyone would pressure people to keep going beyond suggesting that they stick to beef and water (this is good advice as when I first attempted zc I went all in on bacon and had a bad time.)

(Scott) #76

Sorry a little confused on the fat protein ration . So if my calories a day at 1800 ( 6’2” and 270lbs) then roughly 540 calories from protein . Then 540 calories divided by 4 means I can/should try eating 135 grams of protein a day . And then 1260 calories divided by 9=140 grams of fat .

(Elizabeth ) #77

carnivore doesn’t worry about calories, we aren’t machines, just aim for 2 pounds of fatty meat a day to start, add eggs and cheese if you like, part of the great thing about this woe is NOT tracking. measuring etc. just learning to listen to what your body needs. Some tiny women eat 5 pounds a day, some big men 2. PS I was gaining on 1500 calories on keto, losing on 2500 calories carnivore

(Alex) #78

That’s the correct calculation yes :slight_smile:

2lbs of fatty meat is a simple starting point, but I understand the desire to look at macros. I did at first but didn’t feel the need once I’d figured out how fatty my 2lbs of meat needed to be to get 65-70% calories from fat.

(Bacon is a many-splendoured thing) #79

Actually, it’s the other way round. One gram of protein is 4 calories, 1 g of fat is 9. That means in terms of caloric content, equal weights of protein and fat are 31% and 69% of total calories, respectively.

#80

agree!! but once eaten ‘classified as veg’ and a ‘fungus’ and not ‘animal protein’ only you are not doing the carnivore plan. Newbie asked for carnivore guidelines. spice is not ‘full meal consumption’ and adds flavor we may want, but after ingestion it is all about does it suit me or not. personal call. very very personal call on that for a carnivore and how the body reacts.

Carnivore is Animal only and if you can ‘change up and do well’ on more then it is super cool and more power to you and I never take from that from anyone, but the plan is what is is TO HELP needing those coming this way and in the end, after it all, with years doing it all, a person can find what it takes for their lifestyle.

When a newbie asks what can I eat on carnivore, it is 100% animal kingdgom only, SO?? and I sure yet your post Scott! Don’t think I don’t cause I do LOL but think way back when elimination IS key success to moving forward and finding you in all this lifestyle change.

They deserve that fortitude to determine from the ‘original plan guidelines’ to walk that path.

So plan guidelines to me are sacred in a way IF one wants to come this way and while our experineces in our eating we can endure easily, should a new person not walk the stricter path to become ‘them’ and what it takes for long term health and a personal eating plan that does suit them?

ok just chat, but think NEW to this way of life and how important it was to ‘go all in’ as it should be to find our way in the future.

and I am not spouting this ALL at you LOL it is just a thought about what it takes and why so many need this plan ya know :wink:

#81

stop now.

ZC/Carnivore is NO macros or anything. IT IS A plan in itself and we zc peopled drop ALL this nonsense. IF YOU do that you will thrive. Keep the zc faith LOL cause I will tell you with experience and 10s of thousands doing this plan…just eat meat and seafood and fish, all you want when you need it and you won’t regret ever trying this plan.

No animal carbs in any only animal kingdom eating plan matter.

they mean nothing. Come and chat with US who do the plan LOL not wanna be people who know not much thru the experiences of what the zc/carnivore plan is… and yea it sounds like we are gunning for you to 'join; whatever side…lol…but this plan works for those who enter it correctly!! You MUST truly google zero carb and find info on why we do what we do and come on over to our zc forum and watch vids and more and ask. A ‘marco’ or ‘whatever’ ‘‘diet’’ plan numbers mean nothing to us on this plan. TIME and eating on this plan shows all truths! Nourished body heals thru food. Accept the ‘new concept’ of no control on your guessing part is every required for your body to understand :slight_smile:

(Scott) #82

Yes but just trying to get my mind around what is around 2 lbs etc . I will use as a ballpark till I start to get a handle on things . Thanks