Carnivore after 3 weeks, getting worse. Need help

(Edith) #41

Maybe those long term carnivores started with no salt, but I doubt it. In reality their diets morphed over time as their bodies healed. What your body needs now is different than what it will need in six months, 12 months, and six years.

I tried the no extra salt thing, but my body was NOT happy. Making sure I got my salt was almost like making sure I took my medicine.

I’ve been keto with on and off carnivore for almost five years. I still have to take in extra salt. But, recently not as much. I stopped drinking Diet Coke. I think it was depleting my electrolytes. I don’t need quite as much extra salt as I did before I quit the Diet Coke.

We have been trained to think sodium intake is bad, but on a low carb diet, it is good and necessary, especially at the beginning.

(Mark Rhodes) #42

I developed a pulmonary embolism with the second Moderna and looking over my blood pressure and some other vitals it is likely the first caused an issue as well. BUT I DO WANT TO HIGHLIGHT that I have exceptionally thick blood. I am FV and FVIII. Great for fighting saber tooth tigers and sword fights not so good for an engineer. I would have been more cautious but what was hidden was that the American Surgeon and Physician Organization warned against DVT in all three vaccines but this was not reported. I only found out after extensive searching afterwards.

I still believe vaccines did more good than harm.

(Edith) #43

Maybe I missed this somewhere: What is DVT?

(Mark Rhodes) #44

Deep Vein Thromboses https://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/blood-clotting-needs-to-be-watched-with-all-covid-vaccines-states-the-association-of-american-physicians-and-surgeons-aaps-301262360.html

(Karen) #45

I have been advised to cut down on salt since my Stroke and so when I feel I want some and that isn’t all the time these days, i just fry a bit of bacon in the same pan as my meat and get the salt from that without adding any extra. I have found that it completely satisfies my needs. I let my body do the talking, I don’t eat masses of bacon.

(Bob M) #46

What kind of stroke?

That’s the normal blurb. I was cautioned to cut down on salt and watch my saturated fat. But for low carb folk, “cutting down” on salt (whatever that means) can be problematic. I’ve been increasing my salt intake again. And my magnesium. I still can’t figure out how much to have.

(Bob M) #47

Interesting, albeit confusing, article.

(Karen) #48

I had a clot at the base of my neck below where the blood vessel splits into 2 and goes to left and right side of brain. The main area struck was the cerebellar region which for those that don’t know controls balance. Not the normal stroke symptoms and took the hospital 2 days and an MRI scan to diagnose. They thought I had an infection but neurologist kept pushing for the MRi. Ct scans don’t always show everything and mine didn’t.

The stroke consultant just mentioned salt amongst his pep talk. Didnt mention foods or fats but that could be because I am not overweight and otherwise very fit. I don’t mind not taking extra salt, I don’t suffer cramps, at least not very often… very rare really. Like I said adding bacon is a good way when I feel I want or could do with some. I am not so thirsty throughout the night either now I don’t add extra salt. When I was adding salt, I had found some nights I was having trouble swallowing my throat was so dry… dont have that now thank goodness.

(Randy Ward) #49

Day 24… Feel like I’m going to pass out. Dizzy again, brain fog, weak, all the usual suspects. I’m getting plenty of electrolytes. I use keto3000 powder twice a day and salt my water and take magnesium and potassium supplements. Drinking lots of water. I just ate a small/medium tri tip steak, 2 ground beef patties and 5 strips of uncured no sugar bacon for breakfast. Normally I don’t eat again until dinner which is usually New York steak or tri tip steak, some times its steel head or I add some shrimp. If needed, I throw in some pork rinds to satiety. I’m taking all my regular supplements and medications.

Not sure what I’m doing wrong. I keep telling myself that fat adaption may take 6 weeks or so. But I sure as hell know that most people don’t feel like this for this long when starting a carnivore or keto diet. I’m thinking about dropping into a low inflamation keto diet after I hit my 1 month mark on carnivore and see if that helps. I still want to try and stay in ketosis and work towards fat adaption. I just worry that my genetic maladies are stopping that from happening.

Also, I haven’t lost any weight beyond the water weight of the first two weeks. I know this usually doesn’t happen for a while longer. But it sure would be reassuring to see it happen. At least I could hang my hat on something positive.

Anyways, thanks for listening to me ramble about my trials and tribulations. Talking with others help.

(You've tried everything else; why not try bacon?) #50

Are you getting enough protein? I don’t remember. Also, be sure you are eating enough food.

Of course, it’s also a possibility that something is wrong that is completely unrelated to your diet. Have you considered seeing a physician?

(Randy Ward) #51

I would hope I’m getting enough protein. I only eat twice a day, but it is usually a plate full of meat each time. When I do eat, I’m usually not hungry (in the physical sense).

I’ve seen countless physicians over the last couple decades. I’ve definitely got health issues that most doctors have no idea how to handle. I mean, that’s the main reason I’m doing this diet. I can’t seem to get answers elsewhere. Another thing I’ve noticed is that most doctors are either oblivious or decades behind when it comes to diet info especially in regards to keto or carnivore. They are all still stuck on the whole low fat and massive fiber lie. If there is a type of specialist that would be helpful, I’d be happy to try and find one. I just don’t know who/what that would be.

(Rebecca ) #52

Does your electrolytes powder contain potassium? If so, you may be taking in too much potassium, since your are also supplementing it…which could possibly cause the symptoms your are experiencing. Too much can actually be dangerous.
May I add, I am NOT a Medical Professional.

(Randy Ward) #53

My keto1000 powder has 1000mg of potassium in it. That’s 2000 per day if I use it twice per day. I supplement with about 400 more mg in capsule form which brings me up to 2400 per day. I’m not sure how much I’m getting from food. From what I read about potassium negative effects begin around 6-8k mg per day starting usually with nausea and getting worse with more potassium. I haven’t been getting nauseous.

(Rebecca ) #54

Ok, it was just a thought.

(Alec) #55

Randy
I’ve looked all through this thread and I can’t see your blood pressure… whenever someone mentions dizziness, my first question is what is your BP?

Could be just fine, but worth a question.

There are registers of low carb doctors… I think Dr Ken Berry keeps a register, I will try to look it up.

Not Dr Ken’s, but a directory…

(Betsy) #56

I was going to ask the same thing, what is your blood pressure. A drop in blood pressure can also cause pulse to rise. The dizziness and rise in blood pressure could possibly be a sign of orthostatic intolerance. Eating very low carb makes that much worse for me, but I’m not saying that’s true for everyone.
As someone with health issues that doctors don’t know how to address and as someone who doesn’t respond to diets the way the average person does, I understand the difficulty you are having.

You probably already know this but I do see that dopamine release is involved in PKND.

" They also showed nigrostriatal neurotransmission deficits that were manifested by reduced extracellular dopamine levels in the striatum and a proportional increase of dopamine release in response to caffeine and ethanol treatment."

That seems like it could be difficult to deal with. But I wonder if slowly increasing dopamine with tyrosine would help.

#57

I am leery to come into this thread. You are gonna get tons of advice on take this supplement, do this or that or use this product or be sure to do XYZ and believe me, I want to say don’t do any of it :slight_smile: Your medical issues you are dealing with are beyond my scope and with what prescrip? meds you might be on and your general overall body health coming into carnivore. But we come into zc clean and the whole part of this process is full elimination to gain all the results we need but we ALL have to walk thru personal adaption and big changes. But an elimination menu is just that, we eliminate and then re-evaluate.

You got issues to heal. You won’t be ‘the norm’ at all. In fact, almost none of us are the norm coming into zero carb eating.

You got combos of things happening.

You got toxins dumping from the body which is effect your entire adaption time and even tho it is not a readily seen in your face issue we can put our fingers on, like watching oxalates drop off the end of your fingers as in ‘seeing it happen’, your body is going thru massive changes inside. These are not small by any means. These do not heal or change or repair on any other person’s testimonials you read…this is you point blank and what it takes for you. Plus toxins dump at diff. times as our bodies repair and heal…our hormones balance, and it releases diff. toxins at diff. times and this is based ‘all on just little ol’ us’ as a human body. So while you read XYZ from one, it might never ever fit you and probably never will. This is your ‘what it takes’ personal ‘carnivore path’ you must experience.

OK that all being said.

Eat well. Don’t play with up fat or lower fat or anything else. EAT ALL the food your body is telling you to eat at all times. Crucial for new people. Don’t limit, worry, over think anything. You got a hankering for shrimp you eat a lb. or 2 of them. You got a hankering for a monster ribeye steak, hound it down. You still feel hungry after that steak, you eat anything else or another right then and there! You got a draw to a big old pork roast, cook one up and inhale that sucker. Your in the mood for some tender juicy chuck roast, stick in crockpot and cook that bad boy and then eat all ya want til very full and satisfied.

Key to it all. EAT

second is your electrolytes can easily unbalance. Salt is a massive key factor. We lose it alot faster during adaption time so keep salt up for sure.

REST. if ya can at all times thru this adaption. I had bouts of fatigue and woozey and more when I changed, and I WAS damn near ZC for a few years, with some plant carbs in there, kinda on that extreme LC eating fence of coming into this ZC way of eating and I thought, I won’t have NO adaption, I am here…wrong…I had to go thru adaption and it surprised me. When all plants are gone from our menu, we all have an adaption. Of course mine was milder cause I came into this ‘healthy’ with no med issues and I also was extreme lc but yea, I had issues to face and it irked the heck out of me…but one thing is you eat super well, all you need, keep that salt up and BE sure to keep your water intake up.

Key to it all----eat very well, anything zc your body is drawing you to, keep salt intake happening for sure, keep water intake up…drink to thirst only, eat all you need as you need it at all times.

This gets us thru adaption times so much better but key is what is your adaption time. No one knows, this is now all about you and your changes.

So much is happening with your body. You can’t timeline any of it.
The advice is eat the best you can at all times you feel you need it, eat all you are drawn to as you want, keep salt/water happening and REST UP ALL you can when you feel you need it.

big changes take big effort and huge commitment and believe me, you hold this so much better will come to you, but that is on your body schedule only.

There is ‘nothing wrong with you’ other than this is your personal adaption and what it takes for you.

the daily carnivore lifestyle group is here: come chat if ya want :slight_smile: we all do zc only!

https://www.ketogenicforums.com/t/carnivores-march-into-march/113788/338

Wishing you the best of the best.

(Betsy) #58

Have you seen this? I mentioned tyrosine above, and am now seeing about tyrosine hydroxylase and PKND. Has any doctor mentioned anything about dopamine to you?

" Tyrosine hydroxylase takes part in the first step of the pathway that produces a group of hormones called catecholamines . This enzyme helps convert the protein building block (amino acid) tyrosine to a catecholamine called dopamine."

I wonder if taking tyrosine would help. Also, I am seeing BH4 come up in some of the searches.

See what you think about this information.

Also, there is someone at a forum for chronic fatigue that has a doctor that has helped her with testing in this area. I think she is somewhere on the west coast.

(Randy Ward) #59

Lots of great feedback. Thank you everyone, alecmcq, Betsy, and fangs. Definitely going to look at that doctor list, check out the forums, and look at the PNKD stuff.

(Edith) #60

Just a few more thoughts:

  1. Are you already on blood pressure medication? If so, is it possible that now you are eating carnivore/low carb, you no longer need the blood pressure medication? Maybe something to get checked if your BP is really low, talk to your doctor about lowering the dosage or stopping it all together.

  2. I don’t know what your diet was previously, but you may want to research oxalates. People who have problems with oxalate crystals stored up in their bodies from years of eating high oxalate foods, will start dumping those oxalates when they lower their intake of those foods.
    Oxalates are found in plant foods so carnivore is the ultimate low oxalate diet. While dumping oxalate is great for you in the long term, it can be painful and even dangerous in the short term.
    The dumping frequently begins within a few weeks of removing oxalates from the diet. One way to tell if you are dumping oxalate is to actually eat some high oxalate food such as berries, chocolate, or spinach. If you feel better after eating those foods than you can probably assume your discomfort is from oxalate dumping.
    We have discussed oxalates here on the forum and you can find info out on the web. A woman named Sally Norton is the go-to expert on oxalates. If you think this could be related to your problem, you may want to check out her site.