Can you do keto without coffee? Why not?


Coffee is a chemical milieu.
We have established it is addictive.
We have established that the caffeine acts via biomimicry of adenosine in the brain thus blocking adenosine receptors and ‘blocking’ natural sleepiness.

Here is some new information from @collaroygal
It relates to how the roasted coffee beans are brewed (processed into a beverage)
It’s interesting information in light of elevated LDL response after coffee consumption as noted by Dave Feldman.
Diterpines effect liver function. Ketones are produced in the liver.

Interesting info on coffee's effect on cholesterol?

There’s still more to find out.


Thank you for sharing your experience, I was buying the Starbucks Espresso blend (ground beans) at the market. After seeing your post, I decided to give a different brand of just medium roast coffee a try. I noticed that one large cup of coffee was all I felt I needed or wanted vs drinking half to 3/4 pot of the Starbucks…makes one consider that it may have been bumping my insulin more than desired :face_with_monocle:

(Full Metal KETO AF) #129

@BeStill The lighter the roast the, higher the caffeine. That’s why you’re satisfied on less medium roast I think. You get the same caffeine with less coffee. :cowboy_hat_face:


:exploding_head: I had no idea lighter was more caffeinated lol, I thought the opposite…learned something new today :grin:

(Full Metal KETO AF) #131

The dark roasting process burns a lot of the caffeine. I drink espresso and I get much more wired from regular American coffee like in a restaurant. :cowboy_hat_face:


Maybe that’s why I start vibrating after drinking a large tumbler with light roast or breakfast blend.


Coffee may mitigate adverse effects of high oxalate ketogenic diets?

Warning: food frequency questionnaire

(Full Metal KETO AF) #134

I’m committed now

New Espresso machine to combat holiday depression. KRUPS retired yesterday. :coffee:


(Ellenor Bjornsdottir) #135

I actually fell into a bit of a spell where I got indoctrinated by someone who goes a step further than dairy addiction denialism.

I’m out of that, but now I’m h00ked.

(Hyperbole- best thing in the universe!) #136

A thought about addiction…

The addiction pathway in your brain is there for a reason. Biochemically, it is the path that romantic love takes. So maybe plenty of good things trigger the addiction response. Of course, harmful things do too. Including sugar.

But if the only “negative” reaction is addiction, maybe that’s fine. The big problems come when you can’t stop doing something that is harmful to yourself or others.

(Daisy) #137

I have had maybe 4 sips of coffee in my life. Can’t stomach the stuff. I’m a 100% water drinker. No tea, no coffee, no sodas, no milks, nothing but water. Plain water. Nothing added, no carbonation, no lemons, no flavors. Plain water. It’s literally the only drink I like.


What’s happening!?

I am sat looking at half a cup of black coffee. Looking at it. Looking at it like I look at a cream donut, like it’s an art installation, a prop, something fake.

I’ve been hurting myself on a carnivore challenge and here I find a new side effect: looking at coffee, not drinking the coffee. Getting half way through and stopping.

Has beef eating killed my addiction?

It’s really nice coffee, but I’m pouring it into a glass jar and putting it in the fridge. Might drink it tomorrow?

Another Carnivore Thread
(Alex) #139

My life without coffee (and all other forms of caffiene including chocolate) is markedly better.

I’m not saying this will be the case for anyone, but if you have any form of autoimmune disease, chronic fatigue, insomnia, anxiety or other mental health issues I recommend you try going without it.

I started just reducing my intake by having days off and being mindful of how I felt, then when I realised that it was skyrocketing my anxiety and that I actually fell straight asleep without it, I went cold turkey and don’t miss it. I miss the ritual, but I have just replaced it by eating a big steak in the morning!

Caffiene is a highly addictive drug. I found it much harder to quit than nicotine, partially because of how normalised it is. But once you’re off it you start to see how dependent everyone is, how much of their waking thoughts it takes up, and how odd it is that we’ve normalised not being able to start the day without our fix of the dark stuff.

If you want to take it as a recreational drug, go for it. But I wish society would stop normalising taking something every day that interrupts our natural sleep cycle and HPA axis function.


Thanks Alex. Good point.

It reminds me of addiction transfer information. Transferring from the normal addictive drug coffee.

(traci simpson) #141

Dr Berry drinks black coffee when he fasts and with his carnivore diet.


He and Dr. Cywes are addicts.

(Alex) #143

I would guess the transfer of addiction is a natural instinct to look for another source of that dopamine rush/instant reward. Been there myself. Quit drinking, ran all the time, too ill to run and turned to pie and chocolate, quit carbs and started smoking, quit smoking and started drinking again!

Currently noticing I’m turning to my phone/the internet compusively looking for reward or comfort so I’m trying to channel it into yoga. Not a full routine but just doing a couple of sun salutations or poses while I wait for something to cook rather than reach for my phone. Or if I’m in public and waiting I try to do mindful breathing. I do find it helps and I’m less stressed, and feel more engaged in the world and less ‘jacked in’ so to speak. Just a weirdo looking at birds instead of checking the news :slight_smile:

I think it’s normal for very smart people to have a blind spot when it comes to their dependency on coffee. Especially if you’ve given up a load of other vices and you feel it’s all you’re left with.

(Full Metal KETO AF) #144

@FrankoBear Coffee is the replacement drug for most people into AA or NA. :coffee:Maybe they should consider CA groups.

“Hello, my name is David and I am a coffeeholic.”

This is a really great point Alex. Most people don’t think of coffee as a drug. Or if they do it’s status is totally safe and acceptable.

I have had chronic insomnia issues for years. I have gone full Carnivore for now, I am cleaning up the remnants of things like spices from my diet in stuff like sausages as I clean out my freezer and the only plant material that will remain in my diet is those dark roasted beans. If this remains an issue I may have to severely cut back on consumption to see what happens concerning the specific things I hope will improve with this dietary adjustment from KETO to Carnivore. I had cut to a single morning dose of caffeine within a few weeks into the KETO way, because it suddenly made my a lot more amped up. About 10 months in I was crashing after my final meal of the day an hour or so after eating. I was stopping food by 3pm and about 4:30 I would start sleep diving. If I didn’t drink afternoon coffee I would fall asleep too early and then wake even earlier. So six months ago I reintroduced afternoon espresso. I usually sleep about 5 hours a night and start to wake around 4am, then starting a restless cycle of half sleep till I get up closer to 5:30-6am. It’s a screwed up cycle I am caught in that I can’t quite figure out yet. I don’t get the headaches without coffee like many do, it’s pretty easy to stop abruptly for me. But my monkey brain wants it. :cowboy_hat_face:

(Alex) #145

Literally this morning on the way into work they had a dentist phone into the radio show I was listening to who’s ‘sorry-not-sorry’ story was that she’d had 4 or 5 double espressos in the morning and had to cancel all her afternoon appointments because her hands were too shaky to work safely… I was just sat there thinking how ridiculous it would sound if you replaced caffiene with another drug. Like - “sorry I had to cancel your afternoon appointment, inbetween all my morning patients I rushed off to the staff room to snort double lines of coke and now my hands are too shaky to hold a tiny mirror.” :rofl:

For what it’s worth on the sleep thing, some people (myself included) seem to be much more sensitive to caffiene. I went through a year of denial that my sacred bean friends could possibly be that bad and it wasn’t until I was genuinely zero caffiene that I really noticed the impact it had on me. Even one coffee a day and I wouldn’t sleep properly for the next two nights. Even decaf increases my anxiety for a couple of hours afterwards. It’s a horrible cycle to be stuck in.

I appreciate you not wanting to crash your car, so maybe wait until you have a solid 4 or 5 days in which you don’t have to operate machinery and then try going caffiene free? It took me until day 3 to feel less wired, and then I slept for about 16 hours and felt much better but still sleepy going into day 4, then another 12 hour sleep and things started to even out. Caffiene has a half life of 4-8 hours, so you might notice things moving faster for you as I seem to process it slowly.

You don’t have to stick to it if you’re not ready or don’t see a benefit, but like with all psychoactive drugs I’d recommend taking a few days off every now and then!

(traci simpson) #146

I stopped drinking daily coffee due to severe heart palpitations. Now I’ll have it twice a week maybe.