Can you do keto without coffee? Why not?

(Eric - The patient needs to be patient!) #107

I make sure my fingers are clean for all tests. I did this one maybe a year ago and did not see any significant difference. I think I did before, 30 mins, 60 mins.

I haven’t measured BG or BHB in 2 months or so. Maybe start doing that again.


I’ve just organised a continuous glucose monitoring device (CGM).

Let the n=1 deep dive begin!


I’ll look into it, I wonder what I can get in my country… my FiL let it slip that he has T2D, maybe I can get his to ask his doctor for one and I put him on strict keto :joy:


I googled glucose monitors available in my country and the most popular are Contour Next One and Accu-Check Guide. The Contour one has an app, as well. What do you think?

Then there are also FreeStyle and Wellion that check for ketones…strips really are expensive for these two models.

EDIT: I will not be buying ketone ones, love a duck, 10 strips cost 50€!!! who am I, Rockefeller?!?!?!:joy:


Another coffee test. To see if results are repeatable.

Method : blood sample from finger pricked tested on FreeStyle Optimium Neo. Same finger prick site each test.

Dose : double espresso. Approx 80 to 90 mg caffeine
Confounder = added 10mL MCT oil
Coffee dose is taken fasted in the morning and not with a meal. Coffee is stand alone.

Time (min)
(*) 0h:00m 5.8 mmol/L (fasted blood glucose), 0.1 mmol/L blood ketones
(+) 0h:20m 5.4
(+) 0h:40m 5.3
(+) 1h:00m 5.2
(+) 1h:45m 5.0 (caffeinated blood glucose), 0.2 mmol/L blood ketones

Interpretation Fasted coffee decreases blood glucose and increases blood ketones. This result is repeatable even with added fats, MCT oil.

It would be interesting to know what the insulin response is to the coffee dose. The blood glucose drop suggests that insulin, or insulin drivers (e.g. cortisol), may be increasing in response to the coffee?


I need help.

Limbic system. Stress and reward brain centres are neighbours. Craving is a form of stress. It’s a symptom of addiction.

Unfortunately I just learned a lot more about the biochemistry of food and coffee.

Now I look at the forums feeds and see “pushers” everywhere. The coffee crooners. The dairy denialists with their heavy cream whips.

Why, oh, why did I ever listen to Dr. Ifland. I feel like my keto way of life has become a Tom Clancy novel.

I’m typing this having ate a cheese omelette with that delicious nutty Norwegian cheese, cooked in butter and clutching tightly to my coffee mug with it’s floaty blobby creamy meniscus, clinging tight like it is a dying childhood pet. I realise I am a pusher. Shame. O, the shame.

If you are about to have a coffee, listen to the podcast first.

(Michael - When reality fails to meet expectations, the problem is not reality.) #113

Right, gotta be ever so careful. Everything we like is an addiction. Even life. :disappointed:

(Full Metal KETO AF) #114

Might we be talking my favorite cheese, Jarlsberg? :yum::cheese:

You can pry my coffee cup from my oxalate crippled hand if you can! :coffee: :cowboy_hat_face:


Learning is addictive to.

Try not to sweep a generalisation over Dr. Ifland too quickly.

She’s also interviewed by Ivor Cummins. I’ve got a 3 hour commute today, so it may be a food addiction binge day.


Are you in the shadows of the dark alleyway in a trench coat smelling of nutty Norwegian cheese with cramping coffee cup clutching fingers?

David we are truly evil talking about these trigger issues.

It must be our cry for help.

(Full Metal KETO AF) #117

While driving? Out there risking everyone’s lives? :scream::joy::joy::grin::cowboy_hat_face:


Food addiction podcast binge day. :cheese:

The answer to your previous question is, ‘yes’. I’ve been working 14 hour days over the weekend and I could not control the cravings for coffee and dairy. Proof that I am an addict. I need talking back from the edge of the rind.

You ditched the heavy cream? So interesting what Dr. Ifland says about breaking addictions with the more addictions on board at the start, the harder it is to break them. Processed Carbs + Coffee + Dairy, for example. They team up with their sharp dopamine spikes to resist any changes.

(Full Metal KETO AF) #119

I think you’re being a leetle hard on yourself Franko. Maybe working 14 hour days is pushing it and your body knows what it needs to push through…

Caffeine and those magical fats!

I commend you sir for “listening to your body” and giving it the fuel it NEEDS. So no “talking back from the edge of the rind needed”, jump right in that creamy golden brown cup of manna from the creator of the universe and enjoy life! …just a little.


(Michael - When reality fails to meet expectations, the problem is not reality.) #120

When all you’ve got is a hammer, everything looks like a nail. It is a sweeping generalization to claim that because some people have uncontrollable cravings for various food, therefore everyone does but just denies it.


I’m about to come to US and shake you, shake you like the British nanny :joy:
Coffee is LOW in oxalates (high in histamine, though, due to fermentation), black and green teas are HIGH!!

(Eric - The patient needs to be patient!) #122


(Rebecca ) #123

I realize that this is an older topic, but I would still like to add my two cents! Could I do a Ketogenic Diet without coffee? Yes. The question is, do I WANT to do it without coffee? NO!!!:scream: I only have 10 oz each morning with 1 T heavy cream, 10 drops Stevia extract and 2 t MCT whipped in. That is all of the caffeine I have in a day ( I do not believe I am addicted to it). I enjoy every aspect of my coffee “time”. Making it, smelling it and then sipping it while I have my quiet, morning prayer time.
Edit: My son and I had a conversation once about the simple pleasures in life and we both agreed that good coffee is one of them!!


If anyone is interested about me vs coffee… I doubt I will write anything really worth to read, just a bunch of personal facts, maybe it’s interesting for someone, I like to read about how people function differently.

I need to stop drinking coffee already… What am I drinking it? Some stupid old habit, probably.
I like the taste of it but I don’t need to drink it multiple times a day because of that.
Coffee has zero noticeable effect on me (just the water and warmth part) except some common helpfulness regarding output but it’s not like for some people who drink a coffee and poop. It’s some much weaker correlation. It was good for weak headaches when I was young with lots of headache, not anymore (but I almost never have a headache except sleep related and nothing helps then). So, I obviously drink coffee just before bed if I fancy it, it doesn’t matter.
I can’t stand bitter things but my coffee isn’t bitter (it’s almost always black but sometimes it has a few drops of heavy cream or 1-2 eggs, at least the yolks).
I only like instant coffee :slight_smile: Tea is where I have standards (though I am super choosy about coffee. it must NOT be bitter at all and it must be instant - or some expensive other type I don’t buy. cheap not instant coffee is bad, cheap instant is nice if I choose the right brand).

No idea if I am addicted. I am considering I drink lots of coffee every day. But if I run out, I just don’t drink it, no problem (not addicted then, it seems. I just drink it when I have it). I drink cocoa when I have no coffee, only with my meals though but I still have water and tea for the fasting part of the day.

I don’t believe coffee is particularly unhealthy but it seems unneeded.

(Bacon is a many-splendoured thing) #125

I’m not sure how coffee became an issue where a ketogenic diet is concerned. If someone who likes the taste doesn’t want the caffeine intake, there is decaffeinated coffee available that actually tastes decent, especially if you buy decaffeinated beans, and grind them yourself.

But caffeine cannot be the issue where coffee is concerned, because I have never heard anywhere that tea consumption has any effect whatsoever, when we are on a ketogenic diet. (Nor does anyone ever object to the caffeine content of chocolate, for that matter.) And despite my repeated challenges, no one has ever troubled to state exactly what chemical in coffee is supposed to cause the problem with a ketogenic diet. Or, depending on whom you read, provide the benefit to a ketogenic diet.

So, is there anyone willing to take up this challenge, or is this post going to sink without a trace, just as all my previous, similar posts have done?

(Michael - When reality fails to meet expectations, the problem is not reality.) #126

Not much science, and most of it superficially touched and apparently epidemiological. But an interesting overview of the discovery of the coffee bean and it’s invention as a beverage.